Announcer: Welcome to the Global Investors Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host, Charles Carillo, combined decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now here’s your host, Charles Carillo.
Charles: Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast. I’m your host Charles Carillo. Today we have Engelo Rumora. He quit school at the age of 14 and played professional soccer at the age of 18. From there, he began to invest in real estate. He now owns the real estate all over the world and as bought, renovated and sold over 500 properties through his company, Ohio cash flow, which is a two time Inc 5000 honoree. He’s also known for giving away houses to people in need and his crazy online videos. So how’s it going this morning?
Engelo: Hey Charles. I’m good man. How about yourself?
Charles: Good. I’m doing well. I didn’t, I didn’t butcher your last name. Did I?
Engelo: After taking 25. You got it right. Well done. Well done.
Charles: So you have a pretty interesting backstory compared to other, I mean everybody has a different backstory, but it’s very interesting that you, you played professional soccer in Australia and how did that, how did your teams leads you into investing into real estate?
Engelo: Yeah, good question. So you know, I’ve been a crazy football or soccer fanatic giver since I was five years old. My father was a former professional soccer player, so he kind of, you know, installed that in my blood from a very young age and my parents being Croatians and just as, or Italian, you know, these two nations are fanatical when it comes to when it comes to soccer. So I’ve been pretty much playing the game my whole life. Man. You know, I quit school and because of soccer and achieving the dream of being a professional soccer player, which, you know, as you mentioned, I was very fortunate enough to be able to play professional soccer in Hong Kong for six months. But what happened is, you know, I just realized that I didn’t feel that I was going to achieve the level of success by the age of 13. When you kind of start looking to retire because you’ve already broken every bone in your body by that age. Right. As much as a lot of people don’t believe it. Soccer is a very physical sport. There were a lot of injuries associated with it and then you’re kind of a critical when you reach your thirties. Right. I just didn’t feel made that I would be able to achieve enough financial success to be able to support my loved ones, my family, my friends, and to kind of live happily ever after. So I reluctantly decided to, you know, hang up the boots as they say at the, at the age of 18 and a half then and kind of go down a different path. Which over time led me to business entrepreneurship and investing in real estate.
Charles: That’s awesome. Now when you start investing, you start investing in Australia.
Engelo: Yes. So, you know, after my, my soccer playing days, I kind of got a job as a laborer. You know, I didn’t really have too many options, quitting school at such a young age at the age of 14. So I was just, you know, cleaning. I was working as a laborer on booty construction sites. So, you know, cleaning, carrying materials and doing all that stuff and you know, four years of doing that has kind of given me the inside scoop of what it takes to, I guess, renovate commercial dwellings, which is not too different from, you know, residential properties. And I just try to, soaking up as much information as I possibly could on investing in real estate, starting a business, investing in stocks, all of the various financial instruments. You know, I believe that there was an easier way to make money then, then just pushing a broom all day everyday for the rest of my life. I wanted to invest my money and get it working for me instead of me working for it. So yeah, just started flipping in Australia, you know, in Sydney, a very expensive market, you know, boat one property, flipped it, you know, bought another one. I kind of started getting into a lot of debt. I was very young and immature as a real estate investor. I didn’t really know what I was doing and I was, I think a lot of quantity to my portfolio. And I quickly wake up and smell the roses and I realized that, you know, borrowing all this money and buying a lot of the properties, hoping that they’re going to appreciate in value, notice sustainable investment strategy for the long term. Like every property that you buy needs to put money in your pocket and needs to produce passive income, positive cashflow, you shouldn’t be losing on your real estate portfolio. And, you know, quickly realize that might in a built a very logical falling in a short amount of time in Australia. But I just said, you know, this is not going to be good if I keep doing it. I started researching other markets in the country. Where can I find passive income? Where can I find high net returns to you as real estate? Like, it came across my desk. This was around 2012. Prices were [inaudible]. Aussie dollar with the American was one for one. And I truly saw it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to kind of, you know, pack my bags and take the plunge and move to the US night. And fast forward to this day, you know, bought and sold a 500 properties. I literally stopped counting at 500. I don’t even know how many we’ve done thus far and done. Just truly humbled to be where I am today.
Charles: What are the main differences between flipping in Australia versus flipping and you’ve done all your flipping in Ohio, is that correct? Cause that’s where you’re based now or most of it.
Engelo: Yeah, most of it make most of it. Like I’ve done deals all over the world and we’ll touch on that here in a state. You know, from The Bahamas, Croatia, Japan and looking at stuff in Italy now, Australia, Ohio, Kansas city, upstate New York. So I’ve done a lot of deals that have nation nationwide and worldwide for that. Look, there are a lot of differences. I mean, I haven’t been back home in while and I haven’t done any deals in a while, so forgive me if I don’t remember all of them, but, you know, first of all, I guess the biggest differences is the, is the entry price point. I mean, you’re looking at a median house price right now in Sydney, Australia where I’m from is like $900,000. Right? Well, you know, you know, high, I believe the median house price is 130,000. In Toledo where I’m based, where we do all of that deals at $60 to 80,000. Right? That doesn’t even buy half a car in New York or LA or Australia for that fact, you know, so that’s a big, big difference. Just you know, the legals are different to the way things are called the different, the people’s mentalities are different. You know, in Australia it’s just non-existent for tenants, not to pay their rent. I mean, you, you don’t have any evictions there because the population growth is so high that the demand outweighs the supply big time. So it’s a competition to rent properties. It’s common to just move out and not pay the rent, you know, another thing that I’ve noticed too is in Australia, does a pride of ownership in the work that the contractors do on the properties. I mean, you’ve got some good quality, labors, some good quality contractors there that will get the job done in a timely manner, in an efficient way, in a high quality way. I’ve noticed that that’s not the case here in the US mate. You’ve got a lot of shady contractors stealing a lot of money. You know, we’re going to touch on that too later on. I’ve lost over $2 million to shady contracts in the last 6 years. So, you know, it doesn’t, just, doesn’t, just some of the differences off the top of my head. So yeah.
Charles: So tell us about your company, Ohio Cashflow and you guys two time Inc 5000 honoree and what do you guys like about the Toledo, the greater Toledo area, where you guys are investing and how does your company work with investors that come in?
Engelo: Yeah, man, Ohio Cashflow and my pride and joy, my baby put me on the map as an entrepreneur, business signer and dumb, you know, I love the blue and golden and know it truly has been a journey mate. You know, they say that the journey is better than the destination, but humbled, honored and proud to get on the Inc 5,000 list twice in a row. It was a dream of mine to use before I even moved to the US. When I found that about that list to one of my buddies, I didn’t even know what it was. And I remember putting it on my bucket list. I need to establish a company in the U S that’s gonna make that list. And you know, we did it, but yeah, look at my, based in Toledo. I am started in April of 2014. We are the most reputable turnkey real estate company in the country. So we sell fully renovated, intended to properties, to investors from all over the world, East coast, West coast, Asia, Australia. I’ve got an investor from Madagascar. Out of all the places, a lot of these individuals, you know, they don’t have the time or expertise to invest in real estate themselves. So they just buy properties through higher cashflow and all they have to do is, you know, sit back, relax and collect the rent. I mean we pretty much manage the entire process and all the headaches of earning an investment property on their behalf. So from acquisitions to rehabs to property management, evictions, distributing their rent, I mean everything and anything that you could possibly imagine, that’s involved with owning an investment property. We look after all of that for our investors.
Charles: Yeah, you have a even interesting application process, which I was looking there and I have never seen before. And other other websites. I’m not sure if it’s an in house. I’ve never bought turnkey. But one out of 10 investors is normally what you guys accept. What kind of criteria do you…
Engelo: This interview is not going to be long enough if I start telling you. Long story short, why we don’t do it with ourselves. No, look, you know, we are known for turning down more business than we take on. And it’s something that when we first started Ohio cash flow, when times were tough, it took us a year and a half to sell out first problem. Okay. A year and a half, Charles to sell our first property. And back then I didn’t want to compromise my beliefs as Yona, and still to someone that I didn’t believe was going to be a good fit for us. Now we’re selling properties like podcasts, right? Everyone wants to work with us cause we’re the best. Simple as that. I’m a little bit cocky and arrogant when it comes to that, but we truly are one of the best in the, in the country of what we do. So look at the end of the day, made investors come to us wanting our expertise, wanting, wanting our, you know, our market, our knowledge and our expertise once again. So we want investors to let us do our job. If you’re going to tell me what color paint I should use and how thick the carpet should be, then you shouldn’t be buying turn key, right? You should do it all yourself. If you’re not going to trust me. And if you’re going to question everything I say, well then you shouldn’t invest with either. Right? So very, very rigorous when it comes to that. We put investors through the ringer. You have to fill out an investor application formula, work with cash buyers. We want to see a proof of science. We asked for a $5,000 deposit. I mean, it is almost impossible to do business with a higher cashflow. And there’s, there’s a, there’s a method behind the man is because once again, we truly want, we’re the best of the best. So we only want to work with the best of the best. And to be honest with you, it’s a lot about money to me. I, you know how they say everyone’s got a price track, Charles, I don’t have a bloody price. You can’t buy me. I’ve got, I’ve got like my beliefs, my principles and I will not bend. And, you know, people ask me, Engelo, how did you guys establish such a great reputation? The answer is always the same. It’s because we turn down more business than we take on. We truly only work with investors that we believe are gonna be a good fit for us and that we’re going to be a good fit for them. Yeah, that’s our process mate.
Charles: Yeah. It’s awesome that everything’s in house and makes it totally, truly passive for everybody that’s involved. You know, on the, on the investor side. But it’s great that you guys don’t allow any debt. It’s everything’s done by cash. I was looking at one of your forms for that, so they can use whether they’re IRA, if they’re US-based or something like this. But I imagine it’s all for international investors that are buying it a hundred percent cash that correct.
Engelo: Correct. I might look, I’m a big non-believer in leverage. I think that, you know, there’s a lot of beginner investors, getting caught up in, in borrowing a lot of money just because they have good paying W2’s and they were able to scam the system to get a good credit school. I’ve got a crappy credit school. But I run multiple companies. I don’t want to mention how much cash you’ve got in your cap, but anyway it doesn’t matter. That’s not the question here. But you know what? People are good at manipulating their credit score that go to W-2 and now they think that they were experts and they go out and borrow a lot of money, but they don’t understand what it takes to own a real estate portfolio. They don’t understand the swings, the volatility that can happen when properties they can attend. It trashes your property. You have to go through an eviction. And then before you know, it may all of a sudden you’re putting your hand in your own pocket from the hard earned money from the W2 and you have to cover all of your, all of your losses on your real estate portfolio. Real estate, Charles, is about making your life easier about making your life better, about producing passive income for you so you don’t have to work anymore. So you have to work harder, right? So I am a big believer in taking as long as it takes to build the foundation of your portfolio with cash. What that means is at least 30 to 50% of your entire real estate portfolio should be unencumbered. I think that’s a great way of protecting your real estate investments against the downturn. And if, God forbid something was to happen within your portfolio of a couple properties going vacant or whatever it might be, once you are experienced as in you have earned properties for five plus years, you understand the swings, you understand the volatility, you’ve gone through an eviction, you understand tenants you’ve been around the block, then start using leverage at a later date. All good things take time at nothing happens overnight. Right. And I’ve just seen way too many investors getting caught up in easy money and not knowing what they’re doing. And you know, I can tell you right now, we as a company Charles lose 90% of business because we don’t accept any findings. Once again, I don’t care because it’s against my core belief that I want to sell properties. You financing to investors because I think they don’t know what they’re doing and they’re getting themselves in a lot of trouble. That’s why we only work with cash buyers.
Charles: Yeah. The the easy access to money is number one. The number two with investors, which kind of goes hand in hand is no reserves. And you hear, I hear it all the time appeal, contact. That’s all. I’ve got five man. If you’ve got $5,000 like that’s what you have after where you, you can’t, you’re going to get into so much trouble. What are you, I mean you start pulling on your credit card, it’s going to be a mess. And luckily you have a W-2 that makes money. You can cover things, but like you said, some of these markets with evictions, you’re talking six months with no money. You got to cover lawyers, you got to cover the renovation, everybody in between.
Engelo: Yeah, that’s, that’s crazy man. Like you know Ohio it’s four to six weeks maximum. So it’s very landlord friendly. I mean if you don’t pay rent, the judge just to VIX you, there’s no questions asked. But yeah, look, you know, I’ve had investors that you know, come to us with 50, 60, 70 grand and that’s, that’s the life savings. And then they say they want to buy one property and I’m like, dude, one property is not going to get you to where you need to be. I’d rather you use that money, go and do flipping going wholesale, go and start a business. I don’t know, figure figured out another way to make more money with what you had. Cause one property doesn’t give you financial freedom. You really need to build a larger portfolio. Plus I always tell them this is don’t invest when you can’t afford to lose. You know what I mean? Like you should only invest the money that you never need to touch. Always have a buffer. As you mentioned there. Set aside for God forbid any family emergencies, any health issues or whatever it may be, don’t invest money that you are dependent right. So I think that’s something very important that you’ll listen. It’s shoot I’m taking on board.
Charles: Yeah, no I definitely agree with that. So when a new investor inquires with your firm, what are, like, what are the first steps you take other than obviously finding out source of funds and stuff and what there, what do you usually do if they are getting them set up and figuring out, other than you know, what, where they’re coming with funds, what their goals are in regards to investments.
Engelo: Yeah mate. So look, it’s an investor application process on our website. You know, then now they now do a coordination team reaches out to them and believe it or not, a lot of people for whatever reason, feel out in best replication form even though they’re looking to finance, not sure how the hell they **** miss that. It’s like bold and red on the website and it says we’re going to accept any financing. So we’ve got a lot of, I guess dead lead straight away, up front and which do coronation souls out through the, through the initial kind of text message fund called follow up email. Are you a cash buyer? Then we ask for proof of funds. Then we sit down and set of questions. So throughout that elimination process, for lack of a better way of putting it, there’s only a very few investors that will kind of go through and get to an actual phone call and then we kind of, you know, chat to them on an introductory phone call throughout half an hour, learn a little bit more about them and their needs answer any questions that they might have talked a little bit about a higher cashflow and then of course we request a $5,000 refundable deposit once that, once those funds kind of hit our operating account, that’s when we start opening the doors to a higher cash flow and introducing them to our property management company, which is in house, answering any more questions. Best of all present deals. All of our properties are exclusive, no one has access to the no one can see them. So Charles, it’s rigorous tonight and then if we feel they’re going to be a good fit, we might take them on board. If we feel they’re not gonna be a good fit, we refund the deposit. And we don’t work with them. So yeah, look, six years in the business mate, we’ve got 115 visitors on board out of I think two and a half thousand investor application. That’s, I’m not saying that to sound like a bit of a wanker. Like we turned down business just as just to say it. It’s not the case man. You know, we really only want to work with investors that once again we feel are going to be a good fit for us.
Charles: Yeah. You guys want to work with real investors. You don’t want some guy coming in there and telling you a title fee for $40 is going to hold you back and you lose the deal or something happens on something really minimal, which that stuff always happens in any invest.
Engelo: Don’t even get me started on that. Charles. We’ve had some shockers to like, I don’t want to rub, I don’t want to reveal too much, but we’ve had a lot of people tie kicking in. I mean, I don’t mind people try kicking butt, you know, I’ve always said this, if you’re not happy from within and with yourself, you’re not going to be happy with anything or anyone else. And I’ve had a lot of that were just rude man. Just very, very rude or disrespectful to my team of me or operation. I actually screenshot some of these things just to look at it and to see you know, what kind of people are out there and that when I see that stuff, it makes me even more rigorous with my onboarding process because I’ll tell you what they, the profit that you made selling to a prospect or a client that is just going to be problematic and emotions ragging like that is not worth it. That’s why I say don’t have a price, you know? And you shouldn’t be able to be bought by money. Stick to your core beliefs, to your principles and [inaudible] on them because otherwise you’re just going to be a slave to to someone else for the rest of your life.
Charles: Yeah. Because it’s your, your relationship just starts after they buy the pro or the invest into their property. I mean, you’ve got years and years and years, you know, so it’s, yeah, it’s definitely a definitely a good way of doing it. So…
Engelo: I told him this is that it’s like a marriage. This is not a one night stand who are entering a marriage. We don’t like each other. We respect each other. It’s not going to work because we’re in it for the long haul right?
Charles: Yeah. So you personally own a lot of property Bahamas, Croatia, Japan. Um, what do you do with these products? Are these all for personal use? Do you rent them out? Airbnb
Engelo: Don’t even ask cause I don’t even know one. Both of them, you know, I, Oh man. You know, you kind of start getting successful, getting a bit of money in your account and then you just start going out and accumulating all this stupid ****. Excuse my language. And you don’t even know why you’re buying it. It’s just you’re kicking in, you’re like, Oh, I want to be a top dog. I want to own real estate all over the world. So then you just accumulate all of these materialistic possessions and properties and yeah great. I guess the fill the trades, but I don’t know why I did. It might, I’m actually looking at liquidating a lot of this stuff now because it’s just kind of sitting there doing nothing. But look, I bought a few condoms in The Bahamas. I go to waterfront lot in The Bahamas. We just got hit with a big hurricane. I’m sure you’ve seen it on the news, hurricane Florian. Luckily nothing has happened to my properties. One of them was vacant and we just fill out a few people that lost their home to in at the free. I’m another one of my tenants lost their car and lost a lot of damage. So we’re helping them after that. That’s a humbling experience for us. It’s just, it feels great being able to do that. Japan, it’s a waterfront condo. I once again, I don’t even know why bloated. It’s tenanted. It’s producing cashflow, right so yeah, look, I guess I kind of got caught up in the thrill of looking at foreign properties. I’ve learned a lot about it. I don’t regret the experience, but you know, when you start expanding in such a way and buying all of these things and accumulating assets without really kind of having any agenda for them, you start getting spread thin, right Charles, that you can’t catch it all. Dude. You cannot catch two businesses, properties all over the world, tech project, family, health, life style. You just be in all of these places at the same time. Right? and I’ve kind of recently been brain washed with minimalism, so I’m really kind of going down that path. I just want to have one but good and you know, does it bring me value and doesn’t bring me joy and, and you know, I can’t be in all five properties at the same time, so that don’t bring me joy in the room or bring me that much value because I make a better return on investment in Ohio. So I don’t know, dude, skip to the next question. Please.
Charles: So it’s one of those things you said you were having people stay in your house, which is your condo down in Bahamas after drawing. And that’s awesome to hear that you’ve given a houses away. I was reading on your website you gave while houses away and you said you had a number of, you have a whole, like a hundred that you want to give away. Is that what your goal is? Or 99 to go, whatever.
Engelo: Yeah, that’s a stupid mistake that I made on live television. My team almost killed you. We’re going to give a hundred houses away in the next 10 years. I’ve got seven years to go. Yeah, look, success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. Right? And I’m adding another zero to the bottom of your bank account. It’s really not going to get you any happier off of fields or, you know, find peace from within. I, you know, I’m kind of on a journey now where I truly want to find that fulfillment. Um, cause I believe that I, that I lost myself in the hospital and go, go, go, go with starting a company, you know, grinding, doubling revenue, hiring more people, adding more zeros to the bottom of my bank account. You know, and I’m kind of shifted a little bit going down a different path. And yeah, my, look, I love the feeling of giving something to others as, as corny as that sounds. But when you give the, has to a person in need and you see the smile and joy on their face, it beats any amount of money that you have in your account. When you’re walking on the street and you see someone asking you for money and you give them a dollar or whatever it is, you know, don’t judge what they’re going to do with it. You know, give with the pure heart and you’ve done your thing and it’s up to them to do the right thing with that money. Is it going to be drugs or food? We don’t know. But that’s not for us to decide, for them to decide. It’s just a very proud feeling and it’s a true feeling of joy and happiness from within. So, yeah. And I, you know, I’m going to continue giving houses. I guess we’ve got the crazy goal of giving a hundred houses away to the team using on my tombstone. I want it to say, you know, Engelo Rumora, he gave it his all and he gave it all away. You know, one day I’m going to give everything away that I’ve learned throughout my life because I can’t take it with me, man. So what’s the point? And there’s a lot of other people out there that are in need and that, you know, that that hard work of the youth and the money can give them a better life. That’s what I’m about.
Charles: That’s an, that’s an awesome goal to have. I mean, that’s, that’s great. I want to circle back on one thing in regards to, cause you have a lot of people that are going to be listening to this, that have not invested into real estate before. They’ve probably never done any type of flip or any type of even dealt with contractors. You said you lost $2 million dealing with shady people. Tell us what happened and what your mistake was that allowed that to happen to you.
Engelo: Oh wow. Man, I still haven’t figured that one out to be honest with you Charles. Yeah, look, so we’ve, we’ve had our C of indirectly in bezel, around a quarter of a million dollars from our own trading account. I’ve had property managers, steel still ran steel deposits. I’ve had contractors take drawers by a boat, buy a car, buy myth, take their wife on a holiday, buy materials, use it on another job. I mean, I can continue with the sob story forever, which caught, we’ve kind of stopped counting. You know, it’s just, it’s just the cost of doing business, mate. It happens to all of us. If you’re a business owner, an entrepreneur, you will get cheated. You will get screwed. People will lie and steal. You just have to be prepared for it. There’s, in my opinion, there’s really no way of not experiencing, because I feel that, you know, we live in a world, Charles, where is a lot of greed. There’s a lot of that and a lot of people are out to get you. You know what I mean? They, they don’t like to see success. They jealous. And jealousy’s the green eyed monster, as I referred to it as hatred is better than jealous. If you hate me, Charles, I see your comment. If you’re jealous of me, I don’t know. You’re jealous of me and you too shit behind the scenes, right? So, you know, I’ve just learned to live with it. I’ve lived to consider it the cost of doing business. I’ve learned to drop it very quickly and move on because the negative emotion and the negative energy, if you focus on those instances when you’ve lost money or when you’ve been cheated, don’t allow you to focus on doing better, doing more, getting bigger. So do what you can to, you know, recoup as much as you can, but really focus on continuing to scale. Continuing to continuing to grow and continuing to better yourself. I am trusting I trust everyone. And that’s a big problem of mine. So now I don’t make any more of the major decision when it comes to partnerships or when it comes to bringing people on board. Dominique who the unsung hero with Ohio Cashflow. She’s been working behind the scenes and by my side of it, since we started the business, she’s not the front runner like I, does the crazy gimmicks make. She’s the, you know, heart and soul of the company behind the scenes. And for whatever reason I must’ve had some kind of **** male ego thing where I just didn’t trust her judgment when it came to people. Charles, she was right every single time. So you know, you’ve got a woman in your life, I’m telling you maybe before you start any business, relationship or partnership, get your future wife to be, to talk to these people and ask them a few questions might because for some reason women can pick the losers better than us dudes can. So that’s the one thing that I’ve learned is I’m pretty much just from now on, I’m not making any of the major students when it comes to people. I’m just going to let her sniff and let me know what you think are we proceeding and I think that’s going to be a winning formula.
Charles: Yeah, it’s really great. You said about the women’s intuition because one of my mentors, he was saying that he was always take out people out to dinner with his wife and he would find a few of them and actually he would find something that rubbed them wrong during dinner or something like this. And he would dig into it and he would find out that the guy, like, you know, the person, their ex boss didn’t have cancer and was like embezzling money or something. You know what I mean? Something crazy. So it’s like, I mean, but it’s the great way of dealing with it is turning the page. Like you’re saying. I mean, you’ve got to say what I’m, what did I do wrong? And then how do I fix that on the next deal? Or what do I do to not have that happen again? So that’s great,
Engelo: Right? You learn from your mistakes, you don’t really learn from success because your, your ego blossoms and you don’t think about the steps that caused the success. But when you fail, then you lose your, you get haunted with every little step and that makes you better. And of course, you know, it doesn’t make you repeat the same mistakes.
Charles: Yeah, that’s completely true. Another thing too is you have, you wrote a book and then you just finished. Can you explain a little bit about that? Cause I don’t even know about it.
Engelo: Oh dude, if I don’t get sued when this book goes live, I’m going to be the happiest man in the world. The book is called “The raw truth to success in real estate”. Okay. It is just the absolute most brash in your face, kick up the ass motivational book ever. It is all about, you know, of course success in real estate, but it’s also very controversial. I’ll just name a few chapters. Cash is King. Cashflow is queen. Leverage is for peasants, Negotiate like a pimp, flip like, you know, why you should tell family and friends to F off your accountant and attorney are thieves building inspectors and appraisers are bullshit artists. I may do that. I’m going to stop right there. I think everyone got enough of a taste of what this book is going to consider of, I think there’s like hundreds of F bombs in it. But look married to my life’s work. I’m proud of it. There’s like my online presence, you know, it’s very, it’s very attention grabbing, different Koki unique, controversial. But the book is very motivational and I encouraged everyone to check it out once it goes live. We’re trying, I’m trying to get it published. Good luck. No one’s going to pick it up, but I’m still gonna try it. And if I can’t get it published, might also publish it.
Charles: That’s awesome. Well, I really, that’s, that’s great. I can’t wait to read that. That’s definitely on my list. I see those first three chapters. So tell us how people can learn more about Ohio cash flow and I’ll put all the links below.
Engelo: Yeah, just jump online. So, you know, Google is your best friends, Google, Ohio cashflow or Engelo Rumora. Yeah, happy to help, mate. Anyone that reaches out, you know, if we can’t help them, at least we’ll point them in the right direction.
Charles: Okay. Well, thank you very much for being on the show and enjoy the rest of your time in Italy. It looks like a, I mean, you’re gonna be there for a while or no.
Engelo: Yeah. Might look in and out, in and out. I’ve got it. I’ve got a few cool things in the works here that I can’t really share at the moment, but I’m really excited about it, so we’ll see how that all pans out.
Charles: Okay. Sounds good. Well, enjoy the rest of your trip, man. Andwe’ll, we’ll have to connect soon.
Engelo: Thanks too.
Charles: Thank you.
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