GI251: Expat Investing in US Real Estate with Tim Robinson and Lisa Tilstra

GI251: Expat Investing in US Real Estate with Tim Robinson and Lisa Tilstra

Tim is a licensed real estate agent and a house flipper who personally owns a portfolio of rental units. Lisa has been living outside the US since 2012 and owns a portfolio of rental properties she purchased, all while living abroad. Years back, they joined forces to create the REI Concierge, providing boutique consulting services to Americans living abroad who want to invest in US real estate.

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Transcript:

Announcer:
Welcome to the Global Investor Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host Charles Carillo combines decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now, here’s your host, Charles Carillo.

Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Tim Robinson and Lisa Tilstra. Tim is a licensed real estate agent and a house flipper who personally owns a portfolio of rental units. Lisa has been living outside the US since 2012 and owns a portfolio of rental properties she purchased, all while living abroad. Years back, they joined forces to create the REI Concierge, providing boutique consulting services to Americans living abroad who want to invest in US real estate. So thank you so much for being on the show today.

Tim:
Thanks so much for having us.

Lisa:
Thanks for having us.

Charles:
So you guys have different backgrounds and you came together, but kind of with the same mission. So can you guys briefly go into your backgrounds both personally and professionally prior to get involved with real estate investing and your current business? The REI concierge,

Lisa:
I can jump in with my real estate investing story. I take it back to when I was a kid and my parents had two rental properties, one that they inherited from my dad’s father and one that they had bought from a family friend, and they, they had a seasonal business. And I just remember hearing my mom say in the off season, oh, I’m so glad the rent checks came in. So as a kid, I didn’t think that much of it, but then as I became an adult and thought about first renting out my, what was my primary residence, I was like, oh, yeah, like this rental ideas kind of cool to have extra income coming in. And then after it worked well, having my primary residence rented out, and we moved overseas during that time. And at first I was like, I don’t think I can do this from the other side of the world. And then I was like, no, it actually works. Then the idea was, wait, what if we got another one? And it has grown from there, but that’s really where it started. And, and I kinda love that practicality of it, of where it really helped my family just two rental units too. And I think that’s a, a thing that I really love about that story for me, is that you don’t have to build an enormous portfolio for investment properties to make a significant difference in your life.

Charles:
Very true.

Tim:
Yeah, and I think for me, so I, I’ve told this story in various lengths of time, and for the sake of your listening audience, Charles, I’m gonna shorten it down greatly <laugh>. But the reason I got into real estate investing probably in about 2016, and after grad school, I went to grad school in France and graduated in 2024. And since then, just had a series of jobs and sales, mostly sales and marketing and you know, fields like that. And I was with a certain company for about six years, a commission-based company, and we were doing pretty well. And I was the director of sales. And I mean, I think this is a classic tale of a lot of entrepreneurs and especially people in the you know, the rental space. I, overnight my commission structure was changed and I ended up making about half the amount of money next year, or would have had I not decided to leave that profession and start seeking out other ways to make income without having it be beholden to the number of hours I spend in the office and anyone else making my decisions.

Tim:
So I think for me, I went down a rabbit hole, you know, I’m just a, I’m kind of a consummate learner, and I, I found BiggerPockets and I read all the po, listened to the podcast, read all the books, started talking to realtors, and kind of discovered this real estate investing thing and had a couple folks in DC that had done it for years. And I was like, well, this is it. I mean, it, it honestly was a, you know, quintessential light bulb moment for me. And luckily my wife was very gracious to go along with my quitting my job and <laugh> supporting the family while I pursued my passion in real estate. So I really started as an investor. We, we did, and we can go into this later if you want to, time permitting, but how we got our first deals we started doing that and then I was like, I want to teach other people to do this. And so I got my, my license as a realtor in Maryland, DC and Virginia. And then shortly after that, Lisa and I both have spouses that work for the US Foreign Service. So we moved overseas and we were in the Hague for three years where I met Miss Lisa Ttra. So that’s kind of the, the very short version of what got me into real estate was not wanting to work a W2 job anymore, I think.

Charles:
Yeah. That’s awesome. And Lisa, that’s, that’s a great story you had growing up. My dad had a, he, he’s been a rental property investor for so many years, but it was something that I remember going to a property, I must have been in like middle school or something, and he collected rent and he was like, you know, he is like, this building pays for your braces, <laugh>. And I, I I’ll never forget that because it’s, it’s not something you normally hear from your parents. So it was I, I understand exactly how that goes. And it is, it’s true, like every rental property assists a little bit more. It’s a, it’s an additional income stream and it takes down a stress level on the investor because now you’ve kind of, you, you’ve reduced with every type of income stream coming in, your kind of volatility in your income, which lower stress for a lot of people. Yes,

Tim:
Absolutely. A hundred percent. And I think Charles, I’m just gonna say to that, I, I, I, like, one of the things I like to tell my new investors is, you know, sometimes we’re, we’re looking at $120,000 properties and it might cash flow 250 bucks. Like, that’s not super sexy. That’s not really exciting. Like, why would I do that when I can just save this in my account? I’m like, well now you never have to pay for your cell phone or internet again. So sometimes it’s kind of fun to gamify it that way, you know, like, this house now provides me $250 above and beyond all the expenses it requires outta my pocket. And now that directly covers two daily expenses in my life. Kind of makes two 50 sound a little better. So, I don’t know, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s different frameworks and different mindsets and that’s kind of something we encourage and it resonates really well with some people. It does. For me, I’m like, exactly like your dad said that house pays for my car every month. You know, like it’s kind of, it’s kind of fun.

Charles:
Yeah, no, it’s a great way of doing it. And I when I work with when I work with students, it’s, one thing is we can like do like a cash flow statement and it’s very, it’s very simple. I mean, they probably have made more complex ones over the years but it, it’s something that when they’ve closed on a property, they now can add to it and see exactly, this is my personal expenses, this is what this brings in. And it shows that you’re, it’s like, you know, checking off something off the to-do list kind of thing, you know, you’re working down, you’re making progress. ’cause You know, I feel like once you make progress it changes your whole mindset even if you haven’t reached your goal. It’s really, you know, the making the progress and showing people whether those are your passive investors or investors, how you guys work with them that are like, almost like a semi-passive kind of mindset or whether it’s like a student. Once they see the progress and they kinda see that they’re moving closer to it, then it’s much easier to work with them.

Tim:
Absolutely. Yeah. No, it’s fun. It’s fun to watch. I mean, progress really helps you keep going. And if you’re not seeing, it’s just like working out, right? Like if you’re not seeing any gains and you’re not seeing any, I guess, actual tactical or tangible evidence of your progress, then it’s like you get distributed. So it’s, it’s fun to keep it going.

Charles:
For sure. So let’s talk about your firm REI concierge. And can you explain a little bit more about I know you just briefly spoke about why you started it, but if you can explain a little bit more about what you do the clients you typically work with and you know how everything works, the properties you focus on.

Lisa:
Absolutely. We kind of got started because of what we were doing. My husband and I started buying investment properties while living overseas and we started having people ask us questions like, wait, how did you do that? And are, why do you have a house in Kansas City? Are you from there? I’m like, Nope, never been there. And when I met Tim, the first thing he said was, hi, my name’s Tim. Second thing he said was, I hear you have real estate back in the States. We need to talk <laugh>. And that’s kind of where our conversation went from there. And we, we talked a lot. People would keep asking, how are you doing this? What are you doing? And then we started saying, well, maybe we could actually help other people. And Tim specifically said to me, at one point we were talking about this, Lisa, you should start a business <laugh>.

Lisa:
And I paused and I looked at him and I was like, no, Tim, we should start a business <laugh> together. And that’s where the REI concierge was was born. And it really is we are boutique consulting firm focused on helping Americans who are living outside the US find and buy investment properties back in the US And we try to help people shortcut getting the right partners. ’cause It’s really important to have the right people on the ground in the markets where we’re investing. So we try to help them get there faster than we did. Try to try to share our lessons learned and many mistakes made over the years <laugh> so that other people hopefully don’t have to make the same mistakes. And it’s a little tricky. It’s a little bit different. It’s certainly a different mindset when you’re living outside of the country and trying to figure out, can this work, can this not? And everybody’s risk tolerance is different. So a lot of moving parts and essentially we, we help people streamline that process and do a bit of, do lots of education and a and a bit of handholding along the journey.

Charles:
That’s awesome. And I imagine the reason that you are focusing more on expats versus foreign investors is because it is, I imagine, you know, it’s much easier to get financing and also it is the taxes too that’s already set up. Is that, is that one of the main things why you’re focusing on expats or than yourself being them as well?

Lisa:
Yeah, I would say a combination because we are, and we’re very well connected with the expat community that’s a target. And also we have had some foreign investors who we have worked with and it’s a different process. It is possible. It’s more convoluted and the loans are not quite as easy. We also have some Americans in, in the foreign service, Americans who are living abroad as expats still get a normal W2 income, which makes getting loans super straightforward. Some US citizens who are living abroad, working for private companies don’t get a W2. They’re, they have foreign earned income. And then that is a different process for the banks. And we’ve had to find lenders who are willing to really work hard to figure out how to make that work for, for even Americans who are living abroad but don’t have that typical w2.

Charles:
Yeah, I’ve seen before with I, I had a student that was based outside in, in South America and he was a US citizen, but he wasn’t expat working down there. So he had like the social security number, but he didn’t have us sourced income. So it was a whole thing when he got involved. And yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s possible but it’s a lot trickier as you <laugh> as, as you guys already know that <laugh> Yeah,

Tim:
It is. And I think we, we really, I mean, Lisa is very good at saying we really meet the investor where they are. You know, like everyone has different shared experiences. Everyone has different risk tolerance, like she said, you know, different education in the real estate space. And we, I think we kind of, I dunno, pride ourselves, can we say we pride ourselves, Lisa, we pride ourselves Sure. On really understanding <laugh> where you are and not getting too far ahead of ’em. And then when we get to this really, you know, tactical, like, how are we gonna maneuver this, this financing, and what are the pieces that need to be in place and where do I need things notarized and all this? Then we can really break it down. And that all comes down to people on the ground. I mean, mean a hundred percent of the time. It’s merely Lisa and I kind of showing talk to these folks, they’ve done it before we have full faith in them. And then just letting the professionals take it. ’cause It’s, it is honestly too much to know. It really is like, it’s, it’s too much for Lisa and I to talk about in detail. It’s like, we trust these people, they do this every day. There is a way through this. It’s gonna take more handholding and more hoops to jump through, but you can absolutely do it.

Charles:
That’s great. So tell us about the actual properties that most of your let’s just say your clients work with and work and invest into and kind of what your strategy is with them. Are these properties that you have already flipped? Are these just properties that just normal properties, maybe foreclosed properties and you’re working with them through a renovation process? How does it, how does that work?

Tim:
I think we’ve done, I think we’ve done a little bit, I don’t wanna say a little bit of everything, but, so the typical property we work with is usually there’s kind of three tiers of price points. We work at, you know, like 90 to 150 grand, 150 to two 50, and then two 50 to three 50. And we kind of break those down by, when we started the company, I reached out and we talked to a lot of people across the country in cash flowing markets that we personally liked and we’re either already invested in or thinking about investing in. And then just really vetting partners there, whether it be a classic like realtor, property management contractor combo, or a classic like turnkey renovation company. So our properties really run the gamut depending on the price point in these different markets. So we’ve had clients that have gone the, the classic, this is a realtor that knows investment properties, they really know the market, this one needs a little bit of work.

Tim:
Here’s a contractor that we worked with before that becomes highly recommended. They will get in there and do the work to bring it up to market standards, and then we pass it over to this property management company to handle the asset. This is a huge level of trust for folks that come to us and folks that have never done this before. So when we discovered turnkey companies that really, they’re in, in our opinion, there’s not many great ones. There are a couple very, very good ones. <Laugh>, there are a couple that aren’t as turnkey as they think or claim to be. But the good ones are excellent, you know, and that really has become a, a go-to, for us in markets that we like, where it’s just like, listen, we will put you in, we will teach you the real estate fundamentals. How do the numbers work?

Tim:
What we look for in an asset class, what we look for in a neighborhood. And these folks do it all. You know, they’re gonna, they’re gonna buy a property in a neighborhood that they really like because they have to renovate it, they have to manage it and sell it. So it’s all interests are aligned. And so when done right, we love that model. Is it done right? A lot? No <laugh>, but when it’s, it’s excellent. So I think generally speaking, the properties we look for, I mean, 99% of our clients are long-term buy andhold investors. They have some money set aside from living overseas and not having to pay for housing. Typically if you’re a US government employee and they’re looking for, you know, a house between a hundred, $300,000 that will either break even or cash flow a little bit in this interest rate environment.

Charles:
Okay. And then their goal is then obviously they’re building wealth with that as they, they pay down principle, but also if they’re cash flowing, that’s great, but is it just future appreciation? Or once they get it paid off, now they have really a retirement property almost an investment that, something like that.

Tim:
Well, that’s kind of the fun part, is that that is to be determined, you know, and we, we help them explore those options as well. And that’s kind of, we front load that sum and say, you know, what are your exit strategies? What’s your timeline? We really do a lot of analysis and conversation on the front end, just really getting into the mindset of why, why’d you come to us? You know, like I heard real estate’s. Cool. Okay, well let’s explore that. I wanna diversify. Well, why real estate? You know, like we really get to the heart of that because buying real estate from abroad is absolutely doable. And we’ve done it multiple times and as have all our clients. It’s not the easiest thing in the world, it’s just not, you know, it, it’s a complicated transaction. A lot of things can and do go wrong.

Tim:
And if you’re not of the mindset of why am I doing this? Why am I investing in real estate, especially from Sri Lanka in Lisa’s case, you know, like it when someone gets evicted or when you have to replace the gutters in your first two months, these things will really set you back. And we really need to get back to the why. Like, this is why I’m doing this. This is part of my long-term strategy. And we, we make sure that it’s firm before we really start examining any specific options. So yeah, I mean, we have clients that have said, listen, I want to diversify. I’m heavy into my TSP, which is the government, basically 401k retirement plan. I’m well diversified in stocks and bonds, you know, I have an after-tax brokerage and I, I still have this money. What else can I do with it? I love real estate. We say, let’s diversify here. So there’s that. There’s some people that just like to pay off properties. Lisa personally has a portfolio that’s mixed of paid off properties and finance properties, you know, so different tolerances for debt and leverage and stuff like that. And that’s the fun part for us. We really like dissecting that and really getting granular in why are you doing this and what can you do next year? What can you do in 10 years and how is this gonna help your family?

Charles:
Yeah, that, that’s a lot of great information there.

Charles:
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Charles:
One thing that you touched on and I kinda wanna dig into is, I mean, what are some of the hurdles you need to overcome with investors maybe based overseas? And if someone’s abroad listening to this, ’cause we have a pretty good international listenership to this podcast. And so if they’re expats, let’s just say for that instance, ’cause that’s really what you focus on kinda give us an idea of some of the hurdles that you have to overcome with these investors for them to be able to really invest I would say directly into the US real estate market.

Lisa:
I mean, the first one that comes to mind is lending. I remember having multiple conversations with lenders and when I say, hi, I am located in the Philippines, they say, sorry, we can’t work with foreigners. I’m like, no, no, no, no, I’m an American <laugh>. I just live outside of the US And finding lenders who begin to understand that for our first few properties, we really chased the best rate and went through a variety of different banks. The whole, you know, I don’t know if it was Rocket or E-Mortgage or one of those online things, oh, we got a great rate, but the hoops that we had to jump through and all of, I mean, it was just so difficult. We finally ended up working with a local bank in Tennessee where some of our properties were, and we realize, you know what, the, the absolute rock bottom rate isn’t the most important thing for us.

Lisa:
Having a lender who understands us, who understands our situation and is easy to work with and provides great customer service is better than a quarter point lower. And so we ended up finding a lender that we just would stick with. And I, I would sometimes say to my husband, like, Hey, you know, here’s the rate that Gabe can get us. Should we look somewhere else? He’s like, no, it’s not even worth it. Like let’s just, we know it. And so lending is the, is the first thing. And, and you know, this particular lender, Gabe, we have referred a lot of our clients, particularly ones that, you know, in the foreign service things are fairly straightforward, but for those Americans who don’t have the typical W2 or occasionally even, you know, the foreign investor and he has been a lender, he and his team have been willing to work and work and work and find the yes.

Lisa:
And that is so incredible because lenders who I, I don’t know, they all have a different approach, right? And maybe they don’t need the business, but so many we have run into are just really quick to say no, can’t help. And I guess they have enough business and they’re happy to move on, but finding a lender who will say, I’ll help you figure out how to do this, it’s gonna take some time. I’m gonna have to learn some things, has been priceless. Like so incredible. So Tim, I’ll pass it to you for some more thoughts, but lending has been one of the first things,

Charles:
One thing, Tim, before you go on, this is something that I always preach on the podcast is like, local banks and credit unions are your best friends when you’re getting involved with investment properties, especially smaller ones. Yeah. Circuiting and larger Yep. Larger complex stuff. Like, it’s a whole different thing. But the whole thing is when you’re smaller, there’s a local small credit committee, you know what I mean, of like three people. If you tell ’em you’re buying a property, they’ve probably driven by it before. Yep. It is, it it, and the last thing, Lisa, is about what you were saying is that a lot of these large lenders that you might see that have the lowest rate, and you go onto one of these websites that’s advertised on TV or something they have a box. And if you’re not in there, if you’re just a little bit out of it, you’re done.

Charles:
You know what I mean? And they’re just, they must have like a booklet that’s just like, you gotta spend like 10 more time, you know, 10 times more working with this person or something like this and we’re not gonna deal with it. So, but it’s, if you work with a local lender and you have a relationship with them, a you know, these are small banks, small credit unions and they’re very local. I mean, if you call a, a small credit union that has branches and they’re like 50 minutes away from it, they’re gonna be like, why are you, why are you calling us and not like someone local? You know what I mean? Whereas if you get someone that’s within miles of your property, that’s where it’s, they’re really bending over backwards to get your business. And if you have an account there, you know, open an account there, build that relationship. I mean, so I can’t That’s that’s a lot of great information, Lisa.

Tim:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean it honestly, there, I could, I could take your entire show talking about the little granular things that go wrong on every single international transaction. I won’t bore everyone, but the importance of teams is paramount. That’s it. You know, like really title attorneys that really know what they’re doing, property management companies has been honestly our biggest bottleneck because we are entrusting our entire portfolio to folks that we may never meet. And that’s hard. First of all, that’s hard ideologically to swallow. Second of all, it’s really hard to find good property management. I mean, it tends to be a thankless job and people have to get big to scale and pay the bills. And when you get too big, sometimes you get spread too thin. We get do a whole episode on property management, but finding the right teams is paramount.

Tim:
Another, I mean, there’s a couple weird little things that we’ve had issues with and it, it sometimes has to do with international sim cards, <laugh>, there’s a lot of two factor authentications going on during closings and wiring things and stuff like that. And I hit so many speed bumps with my large multinational bank <laugh> closing on my first property from the Netherlands that I was losing my mind. But yeah, just, you know, let me text you your number. And I’m like, I can’t, I have a Dutch cell phone. You can’t text me even though it’s the year 2022 for some reason you can’t figure out how to text me an authentication code. So I guess long and short of it, be sure when you open an account and plan to wire money out of that, that they know that you might live overseas. And if you already live overseas, call that bank and do whatever you need to put in place so that when you have to wire funds for closing or EMD or what have you, they’re able to text you.

Tim:
They’re able to call you able to authenticate your existence. Because you know, it, it, it’s pretty important when you wanna close that you’re able to do that. And it, it’s just weird little things, Charles, like really weird little things that you never think would be a thing on closing day are always a thing. And the time difference, you know, like, yeah, there’s a million of them. But luckily I think a big reason Lisa and I started this and have been successful is because we’ve made all the stupid mistakes. So <laugh> I’m sure we’ll make more in the future but we know what to expect and say, have you made sure you’ve done this? Have you made sure you’ve done this? Just things you would never think of until they happen to you. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s fun and frustrating to learn

Lisa:
And, and everything would be made so much easier if they allowed e-signatures for closing. Amen. Yeah. And the fact that we cannot, even though it’s 2024 still kind of boggles my mind, but, but closings, right? And choosing, am I gonna do this remotely and use the US Embassy where I’m at or am I gonna have a power of attorney? And we’ve done both and I’ve definitely moved towards the power of attorney. And what I, what I usually tell our clients is you’re doing, you’re kind of a project manager when you’re moving towards a clothing closing, you wanna really stay in touch, you wanna over communicate. I send so many emails that include all of the different people involved. And okay, remember I am in Sri Lanka, my sister’s going to, is my power of attorney. She’s in Tennessee, the property’s in Florida. Are we all tracking? Right? Like the title company, you’re in Florida, my sister’s not coming in in person, right? Like over and over. And I sometimes feel like I’m over communicating, but it, I tell our clients, you can’t over communicate. You really have to, everybody else is super busy. You have to advocate for yourself, manage the whole process actively. Yeah,

Charles:
I know about the embassy. Tell us about that a little bit. Because I had a first syndication closing and I was actually, this is several, a number of years ago. And I was in Hong Kong. My wife was working there for a month. And so going on the website, getting set up to do the embassy. And then actually when we closed, I was meeting some virtual assistants. I have two of ’em in Nepal. And I was like, I, it was, it was a whole thing and the bank was like, all right, you don’t have to, they were like, you don’t have, because I signed everything beforehand, right? And this is just like one last closing document. So emailed to me, printed it at my VA’s house in Nepal and they were just like, alright, just get it sent to us and give us a tracking number.

Charles:
Because I’m like, I can’t get this like next day, you know what I mean? It’s like impossible. It’s like some bank in Wyoming or something. So I was like, all right, I’ll give you a DHL tracking number. And I walked into D Hhl and like, no one’s ever sent, these people are just like I was like, probably the only person sending something this day and like, Capmandu and they’re like, legs are up on the table. And it was just like, I like, okay, ship this. Oh yeah, it was like 50 50 bucks but it’s like, yep. I was like, please don’t make me go to this embassy. ’cause I kept on canceling ’cause they were like, okay, you’re gonna have to do this. So I’m like, alright, I’m gonna set like four appointments here so I can get this thing like notarized. But tell us about being overseas and getting stuff notarized for the US

Tim:
Yes. That everything you just said. Yes. <laugh>, <laugh>,

Charles:
<Laugh>.

Tim:
No. So fortunately if you are a US government employee, so they, they tend to charge if you need to get something notarized and Lisa, correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re not a government employee and you need to get something notarized in another country, they charge you per signature. So a notary can come in if you schedule a week or two in advance to a US embassy and a US license, notary can charge you like 75 bucks a signature. And we all know in closing documents, there’s approximately 2 million signatures <laugh>. So it ends up being expensive. Luckily if you’re a US government employee, they do do that free of charge, but you do have to set an appointment. So even during Covid, it was wild. Like I closed on a property in Birmingham from the Hague, but the Hague does not have the consular offices needed to sign the documents.

Tim:
So I had to go up to Amsterdam schedule literally six weeks in advance and I’m like, listen, I’m closing before six weeks. And luckily they were able to squeeze me in, but during Covid they had like two hour windows where they’re like, my notary will be sitting here at this desk and has to sign all the notarized papers for the last month. And I’m like, I don’t know if that’s gonna work <laugh>, but like, so we slept our little 1-year-old up there, you know, up to the, up to Amsterdam, took the train up there and we, we got it done. But it, it can be very specific and a little bit stressful. And then the overnighting packages thing, Lisa can tell you more about that ’cause she has some tail good row on the DHL front <laugh>

Lisa:
Overnight. I give air quotes. I said something DHL from the Netherlands of all places you would think. And, and they guaranteed two days, right? 48 hours it’ll be there. I check in with the title company two days later. Yeah, we don’t have anything. So I look at the tracking number, it is sitting in Rotterdam, which is literally 30 minutes away from the Hague where I mailed the package for five days, Charles five days. They couldn’t explain it. Fortunately I had a fantastic title company to work with and they moved everything forward, smoothed it over, but it was ridiculous. Really. Hello? What is going on? Yeah. So all sorts of things that can, can happen. Yeah,

Charles:
That’s a whole nother level to complexity. And one thing Tim said earlier was about the property management, which is obviously we could talk for the rest of the day on property management, but I remember when I, I got property management my first time that like held me back from a lot of international traveling and I was literally left the country within 48 hours of like, of my, of them taking over. And I was like, yep, I’m outta here so I wanna traveling again. Yes. And so having that good property manager is key. If you’re in the United States, if you’re 10 minutes away or if you’re 10 times zones away, I mean it’s just, and then working with someone that you’ve, that someone’s already worked with before and that’s the whole thing. So you can find property managers everywhere, but the real good ones, whenever I find good property managers and if maybe I put ’em into Google or I put something, you never find them. So it’s like you have to go buy referrals or buy someone or it’s, and changing a property manager, if you have a one unit, 10 units, a hundred units, it’s, it is, yeah. Lisa’s face can explain that. Yeah, <laugh>,

Tim:
It’s, it’s,

Charles:
No,

Lisa:
I know that all too well. Yeah.

Charles:
And I mean, just changing over with tenants and changing over bank accounts, so it’s something that you need to have done correctly upfront, you know what I mean? Hundred percent. So, but what are some common mistakes I guess you would see real estate’s real estate investors make that are based abroad? I mean, how, how have you seen them kind of drop the ball possibly before working with you and then they came to you for assistance?

Lisa:
I mean, the first thing that pops into my mind, Charles, is just not taking action, not buying anything. People think they wanna do it and they just keep hesitating and hesitating. And so that’s the, that’s the biggest mistake, right? ’cause Everybody says, oh, if only I had bought this yesterday, yesterday, yesterday. And it’s like, there’s gonna be no perfect time. Well, we’re gonna wait for the market to, you know, correct and this and that. And it’s like, we have no clue what’s gonna happen tomorrow. And so what’s a good deal today? And that’s, that’s probably the biggest thing of people who are just always waiting for better conditions, better prices, better rates. Do we all want those better things? Yes, absolutely. And also over time, I mean, the market and rates have been all over the place. So we really encourage people to zoom out, look at the big picture. Oh, 7.5%. Yeah, it’s tough. It really eats into your cash flow on this investment property. However, hey, you know, like it was 12% <laugh> a couple decades ago. It’s better than that. At least we’re not there. And so, I mean that’s, that’s just what pops into my mind is like the first and biggest mistake is just waiting for the perfect conditions.

Tim:
Yeah. And I, I think to piggyback off that, Lisa, I think sticking with the same expectations that you’ve had when you bought your first house. Mm-Hmm. If you’re a repeat investor, things change constantly. And if you’re looking for the same returns and the same metrics you were in 2019, it literally doesn’t exist anymore. You know, like if you set off your career, and I did this, you know, when I was buying in 2016, I was like, I’m not buying anything if it doesn’t cashflow $500 a door, Charles too. And like, if I’m still looking at $500 a door on $120,000 price point, I’ll literally never buy a house again. You know? And that’s unacceptable. So I think just taking that further, like yes, absolutely buying a deal is the most important thing responsibly. So talk to us, talk to folks that have done it before.

Tim:
Get good teams on the ground, get a good lender of course, but don’t get a killer deal seven years ago and then just wait for that killer deal to come again in 10 years. Because it’s, it, it, it doesn’t happen. You know, things change and you have to pivot. And I think the ability to be adaptable and be able to pivot and understand that your expectations six years ago are not realistic now is absolutely essential if you want to continue doing this. I mean, if you, if you bought 10 properties six years ago and you’re good for life, fantastic, congratulations. But if you ever wanna buy again, you have to change your, your expected returns. You just have to, yeah.

Charles:
Yeah. I think it’s also with the debt is a interesting thing ’cause you’re not married to the debt. They can always refinance it out if it goes down. That’s one huge plus yes. Especially if you’re working with smaller properties like you guys are for mainly those are easy no prepaying penalties so you can be a little bit more you know, you don’t have to think that much in advance. It’s really just the interest rate that you’re trying to beat. And then the other thing I found is that when you’re talking about you know, I spoke to a mentor before and he was telling me, this is many years back when I was in that mindset that Tim and I were just agreeing on is that you know, you’re gonna hit some, you know, some properties are gonna be doubles, triples, you know, you’re gonna get home runs and you just kind of, you need all of them and you’re not gonna stop. You always have to be a buyer out there looking for properties and you, you know, and every time I close on property I’d be like, oh yeah, I’m thinking myself like overpaid for this thing, overpaid for it. And then six months, 12 months later you’re like. I was like, good.

Tim:
A good idea. So yeah, <laugh>, right?

Charles:
So it’s just one of those things. Yeah, it’s just one of those things where you have to trust, you know, trust real estate, it’s been around for many years. Trust, rent the real estate, what we’re doing and then it’s also, you gotta pull that trigger and then you have to just get ready for the ride.

Tim:
That’s it. That’s

Lisa:
It. Indeed. Well said

Charles:
<Laugh>. So tell us you guys have very interesting backgrounds being abroad, living abroad for many years continuing Lisa, and I mean, what are some of the factors contribute to your success over all these years? Because I’ve done a lot of business abroad and doing it back in the United States and it can get very difficult. So I mean, how have you guys been so successful?

Tim:
I’ll let Lisa start off ’cause she’s been doing it longer than me from more places. How have you been so successful, Lisa?

Lisa:
My goodness. I think being partly crazy and resilient. <Laugh> just continuing to, to push forward. I mean, I think about so much that both my husband and I have learned since we started and we look back and we’re like, oh, wow, shouldn’t have done that. Shouldn’t have done that, shouldn’t have done that. And yet, you know, it’s like you just said Charles, you bought that property. You’re like, oh, I shouldn’t have bought. And then six months later I’m like, oh, that was great. And so I think I, I said this earlier in talking about zooming out, keeping the big picture in mind. And Tim and I talk with our clients. We, we talk first about what’s your why? Then we talk about how, and then we analyze risk. But that why is so important and grounding. And my husband and I regularly come back to look at what’s our why.

Lisa:
And it can shift and change and absolutely has for us over time. But whenever we’re in the midst of a situation where I’m just like, I wanna sell this property, I’ll, I’ll burn it down if we can’t sell it. And then my husband will be like, okay, deli, let’s take a breath. Like actually let’s look at the spreadsheets. ’cause Overall it’s, it’s not that bad. And again, zooming out big picture, why are we doing this? Oh, we’re doing this for our future. We’re not doing it right for the immediate. And, and, and so that ability to zoom out, to pause, to take a breath and then continue to step forward intentionally and, and also being willing to be flexible, adjust along the way has been another part where, okay, this market is not meeting our goals and our targets, so let’s look at some other markets. Okay, we’ll do here, okay, this isn’t meeting our goals. Do we need to adjust like our target numbers or can we find another market that will meet those? A lot of, a lot of dynamism just in our goals, the targets that we’re working for with keeping that end point in mind throughout all of the ups and downs.

Charles:
That’s great. Yeah. The wises super importantly. So Tim, what do you got?

Tim:
Yeah, I mean I, I couldn’t say it better than that honestly. I think a lot of it has to do with, for me, faith in the asset class. You know, like from all, and again, I dove deep in just looking well, you know, index fund, sure. All this thing. Sure. Like, but real estate just makes so much sense. And like you said, Charles has for quite a few years, you know, and it’s, I think the thing about real estate is it’s intrinsic value. You know, like a house is not gonna go to zero a house houses people and we provide a valuable service to folks that can’t buy houses themselves or choose not to for whatever reason. And I like that, you know, like being a landlord, I like, and I think being, being able to provide that value in an asset class that might, I wanna say never loses its value again, it won’t go to zero, might dip it.

Tim:
There’s peaks and troughs, et cetera. But I think having faith in the asset class and the ability to pivot, like Lisa said, just be, be able to roll with the punches. Like you said, let’s go on a ride because it that, that’s it. I mean there is no like, you know, says I want mailbox money. Well show me that. ’cause That’s not rental real estate in my opinion. You know, like it, there’s a lot of moving pieces. You have to manage the managers. You can refinance, you can look at asset allocation and portfolio pruning, you know, as you get certain properties like can I 10 31 this into something that’s gonna suit my needs in the seven year period better. The, I guess the flexibility there. I just love it. And I think the ability to really track tracking is essential. Lisa and I preach this all the time, track your net worth, get your spreadsheets out, zoom out and look at the big picture.

Tim:
Yeah, that $11,000 hit was terrible. I’m sorry you had to pay that to turn over that, that I’m speaking to myself here, Charles, that $11,000 you had to pay to turn the one unit in your quad last month, that hurts at the end of the year, but that house is worth $60,000 more this year than it was last year. Zoom out, get the big picture and just pivot it accordingly. So I think that’s essential. And it’s, it’s not, again, it’s not, I mean people say set and forget it, I’ll buy it and hold it for 30 years. That that’s fine, but you should probably actively manage a little bit more. So I think staying in tune with what you’re doing, revisiting your why, I mean Lisa actually taught me this. Lisa, your why does isn’t the same. You know, my why in 2016 is different than it is in 2024. And that’s fine and it should be different. You know, I’m a different person now than I was then. So I think revisiting that and zooming out and really just kind of focusing on why you did it in the first place and how that’s different than now. Keeps it fresh, you know, and keeps you resilient and able to, to do more things.

Charles:
Awesome. Very well said. So how can our listeners learn more about both you and REI concierge?

Lisa:
The REI concierge.com is the most stable place to visit us <laugh>. We do also have a social media presence on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and all of those places. Inconsistently, <laugh>, we’ll be the first to say we are always continuing to grow our presence there, but through our website there’s contact forms and we would absolutely love if anybody wanted to reach out. We also have a podcast, the RAI concierge podcast and would welcome anybody who wants to tune in to any of our shows there.

Charles:
Awesome.

Lisa:
Which include you, Charles coming up. It hasn’t been released yet, but it will be

Charles:
Perfect by the time this podcast goes live. I imagine it will be. So you can check my awesome, my great interview I had with Tim and Lisa. Fantastic host. And so thank you so much for coming on and looking forward to connecting with both of you guys once again here in the near future.

Lisa:
Thank you so much.

Tim:
Our Pleasure. Thanks for having us Charles.

Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

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About Tim Robinson and Lisa Tilstra

Tim is a licensed real estate agent and a house flipper, and he currently owns 12 rental units.

Lisa grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania.  Her parents were self-employed with a seasonal business, and she remembers her mom’s relief when rent checks arrived in the off-season.  Her parents’ two rental properties sparked the desire for her to pursue real estate investing.

Lisa’s been living outside the US since 2012, in the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, the Netherlands, France, and Sri Lanka.  She and her husband have purchased all their investment properties while living abroad. First with the help of family and then with the skill of a talented REI team.  Her favorite closing happened while they were vacationing in the French Alps!  They’ve moved back to the US and are in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Today, Lisa’s portfolio includes 13 properties/19 units across 3 markets.  She’s managed 1031 Exchanges and renovation projects (major and minor) and constantly explores new possibilities in the RE investing world.

Alongside managing her portfolio, Lisa loves working with clients of The REI Concierge, providing boutique consulting services to Americans living abroad.

Lisa is a paragliding pilot, she’s completed an IronMan triathlon, climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro, completed the Rim2Rim2Rim of the Grand Canyon, and has traveled to over 80 countries since getting her first passport at the age of 29.  Someday, she’ll own a place in the French Alps.

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