GI181: Investing in Real Estate Out of State with Kathy Fettke

GI181 Investing in Real Estate Out of State with Kathy Fettke

Kathy Fettke specializes in teaching people how to build multi-million dollar real estate portfolios through creative finance and planning. She is author of the #1 best seller, Retire Rich with Rentals and Kathy is a frequent guest on CNN, CNBC, Fox News, NPR and CBS MarketWatch.

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Transcript:

Announcer:
Welcome to the Global Investor Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host Charles Carillo combines decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now, here’s your host, Charles Carillo.

Charles:
Do you have money sitting in the stock market? And you’re worried about it or worse. You have money sitting at the bank, not keeping up with inflation. My name is Charles Carillo, founder and managing partner of Harborside Partners. And since 2006, I’ve been investing my money and my family’s money into income producing properties. These are real assets, real properties with real addresses that produce real cash flow. At Harborside Partners, we provide passive investors who love real estate with a turnkey investing solution. If you want to put your money to work in real estate, but can’t find deals, don’t have the time to get funding in. The last thing that productive people want to do is manage real estate. We find the deals. We fund the deals and we manage the tenants, the termites and the properties. Partner with us at investwithharborside.com. That’s investwithharborside.com. Go to investwithharborside.com. If you love real estate, you like the idea of passive income and believe that income producing properties will appreciate over time. Go to investwithharborside.com. That’s investwithharborside.com.

New Speaker:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host Charles Carillo. Today we have Kathy Fettke. Kathy specializes in teaching people how to build multi-million dollar real estate portfolios through creative finance and planning. She is author of the #1 best seller, Retire Rich with Rentals and Kathy is a frequent guest on CNN, CNBC, Fox News, NPR and CBS MarketWatch. So thank you so much for being on the show, Kathy.

Kathy:
Thank you.

Charles:
So give us a little background on yourself, both personally and professionally prior to getting involved in, in this real estate investing career.

Kathy:
Yeah. Well, my first career, I, I was in broadcasting. I graduated with a degree in broadcast communications and worked in and also journalism and worked in the newsrooms of ABC and CNN and Fox News back when it was not slanted <laugh>. We, we couldn’t be slanted back then. And then I met the love of my life. We got married and I was a stay at home mom. I did have a, a side businesses, but I was mainly raising the kids. And he had just come out with his book Extreme Success and was traveling around the, the country promote. He basically motivates people into living their best lives and everything was great. We had just bought our first house, 4,000 square foot home, like six bedrooms. We, we did the typical American thing and went way bigger than we needed, and that meant a big mortgage, but we could afford it until rich went on a trip and noticed a little freckle on his knee and came home, got it checked, and it turned out to be melanoma. That’s when everything changed.

Charles:
Wow. Wow. That’s, and so why did you choose real estate as your investment vehicle?

Kathy:
Yeah, so with melanoma to pretty deadly skin cancer. And the doctor basically told him if it had spread and he thought it had, that rich would have maybe six months to live at best. So that was extreme shock to our family. Of course, when we were just living the life, you know, he had this Simon and Schuster book deal and traveling all over the country on media, on a media tour. So I had to figure out what to do and if the doctor was right, I had to figure out our finances. I had two young kids at that time and we had done everything that our financial planner had told us to do. Saving 10% for emergencies, saving 10% for our retirement, and 10% for fun. You know, we did, we had all these buckets and we were doing everything right and feeling good about ourselves, but when something major like cancer comes up, you can blow through those savings pretty quickly.

Kathy:
And that, that’s when I thought, well, what can I do? I’ve been out of the work world for so long, but I do have a degree in b broadcasting. So I had this little radio show I was doing on the side that just didn’t make any money, but it was fun. And this was before podcasts back in 2003. And and so I just thought, well, I’ll just use this platform to find out how people make money. You know, I’m like, I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta learn. And ideally I thought I’d heard of this thing called passive income. I didn’t know what it was or how to get it. I thought it was just for rich people, but I thought, you know, I’m gonna use this platform to find out. And I did. I just interviewed Millionaire After Millionaire who was living on passive income, and it turned out there were two ways that they did that. One was through having a business and one was through investing in real estate and usually both.

Charles:
Yeah, it’s, it’s funny how that works, right? It’s usually you find people that are usually have passive sources of wealthy people in many different, many different income streams that are passive. So yeah. So what was your first real estate investment when you actually started? Like, what was your strategy and what were you doing?

Kathy:
Well, like I said, we had bought that big house with six bedrooms. That was our first, but it was the first time being a landlord too, because I thought, well, gosh, you know, we need money. We need money now. What if I just rented some of these rooms out? So we turned the house, we found a way to turn the house into a fourplex. We kind of walled off certain things and it had an in-law unit, so it had a separate entrance, separate bathroom, kitchen. Then there was like this separate office area that we put there was already a bathroom in there, so we just put like a, a mini mini kitchen in there and then another sort of room on the back. So it was like four different entrances, totally separate, and we just kind of rented out rooms. And that got us through a very difficult time.

Kathy:
Rich is healthy today. The melanoma was all cut out and cured, and he’s, he’s just as healthy as can be and puts on a lot of sunblock cuz he’s still a redhead, <laugh>, lots of regs. But but we, from, from learning from the show, from my own show, the real well show I was learning things I had never been taught, like how to use leverage, you know, and how to clean up your credit that there’s ways to do that and how to get insurance for all these properties and property management and just things that, you know, average people don’t sit around the dinner table and talk about. So I, I had just never heard of any, any of it. So it’s like, I, I just, it was like a whole new world was, you know, showing up for me just in my desperate attempt to figure out how to make money and stay a stay at home mom.

Kathy:
Because if the doctor had been right, I didn’t wanna leave my kids who would, we’d all be in such grief and then go work for, you know, eight hours a day. No way. So I just you know, started to learn. And then I had Robert Kiyosaki on the show and Robert Kiyosaki was explaining, cuz by now it was like 2005, like end of 2004. And this is when I think 2004 was the year that was kind of like 2021 where prices went up 40% in some areas. So he knew that that was not sustainable. He knew that the loans were, were bad loans out there. I knew this too. And so he kind of warned me on the real well show that and if you know who Robert Kiyosaki is right out, everybody knows it. But he warned us that probably these bubble markets that had gone up 40% year over year, you know, during that time we’re going to implode.

Kathy:
So he explained how he sold all of his property in those high price markets, took all the winnings, right, took all the earnings and took it to Texas. And Texas at the time was just at the beginning of its boom. And if, if, obviously if you talk about Texas today, everyone knows it’s a good place to invest. But in 2004, people didn’t know, and prices hadn’t gone up for years and, and it was just kind of a flat market after all these other markets had been making so much money. People were like, why would you sell in these hot California markets or Arizona or Florida and buy in boring old Texas? And he explained the reasons and these, these reasons have stuck with me till to till now and will always be these foundational tips. You know, the foundation of what, how he invests was to look first and foremost at job growth, second population growth and third affordability.

Kathy:
And if you can put all those together, you’re probably going to get appreciation as well. Cause if you’ve got the job growth, population growth and, and properties in the area affordable, that generally means there weren’t a lot of builders there. You know, it’s just not a high growth market, but if it looks like it’s going to be, then you can really make a killing. So that’s what I, those are the rules I follow, again, still today, job growth, population growth and affordability. And I added a fourth one of infrastructure growth because if there’s an area, like in Texas, you might say, yeah, I wanna invest in Texas, but where we wanna look where the infrastructure growth is, where are the cities building new freeways, building new hospitals, new schools? And that will clue you in as to where the growth is headed.

Charles:
Oh, those are some great, great metrics. It’s funny you just talk about Texas like that because I remember like five, five to seven years ago and talking to syndicators and seeing what they’re investing and every person was like invested or had a deal in Texas. Yeah. And it was like, that was where it is. And now everybody knows it. But it was like, it was just amazing that that was before it. And over the last several years, it’s become such a place. Dfw, dfw like p I mean like you don’t even use Dallas anymore. Yeah. So it was just like funny. And that’s crazy that he saw that before and I did not know that about that, what he was doing in 2004, 2005. But makes perfect sense. I mean, and we’ve kind of seen again here now in 22 20 21, 20 22.

Kathy:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, here we are again with markets that have gone up 40%. And I know people who are rushing to those markets still, Austin and Boise and Nashville and Miami, you know, markets don’t continue to go up 40% every year. It’s not sustainable. And if it already happened, you probably missed it. So to, to go into a market like that and think it’s gonna be a repeat, it’s, it’s probably not. And sure enough, those markets are definitely slowing. You know, not there, there won’t be a market crash I don’t think, but just you’re not gonna see that kind of growth. So when you do your underwriting, just plan on it being a more normal market, you know, from here on out. <Laugh>.

Charles:
So tell us about for what you’re doing, Kathy, like what is your current investment strategy and like what type of properties and investment strategies are you using right now in markets you’re looking at?

Kathy:
Well, we’re gearing up for picking up some great multifamily in the next six months, mainly because we’re seeing deals blow up all around us. You know, I I I held off on buying multi-family for the last, unfortunately two, two or three years because I didn’t know that it was gonna take off the way it did. But I do know a lot of people that just didn’t underwrite well and were really aggressive, way too high leveraged, didn’t think that things would change. And you know, these apartment buildings are being repriced by, by the millions. So I think in a few months we’re gonna be looking at multifamily and there’s a desperate need for housing. So it’s great that prices are gonna be coming down, that we can get some of these a assets for a bit less because the need is there for sure. In the meantime, we are looking at certain markets for single family homes because there’s great demand for those. And we’re, we’re starting a fund in a single family rental fund in Dallas and in Florida. We just wrapped one up in Florida. That went really well. But again, these are growth markets based on strong, strong, as I said, job growth, population growth and still somewhat affordable compared to other parts of the country.

Charles:
Yeah, that’s, it’s amazing to, earlier today I was having a call the property manager for a property that we have down in Tampa, and he was telling me that c-class assets down there that he manages, that their family manages, they’re seeing some of the delinquencies go up to 15%. And that’s in Tampa. Tampa is, you know, every time you hear how markets it’s, you know, Tampa’s in there in the top five. So you

Kathy:
Mean delinquencies on, on on single family mortgages or on

Charles:
No, no delinquencies on people paying rent and single

Kathy:
On on rent. Oh, okay. And c class rents, well that, that’s an issue today is this. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> inflation is just Oh, it’s an ugly beast. Yeah. And people who who have less money are the most affected by it, sadly. And you know, that thing is when the Federal Reserve prints 40 or 50% of the currency that’s circulating and, and just a matter of years, of course there’s gonna be inflation. It’s a silent tax and it hits, it hits the poor. So people who are just living paycheck to paycheck and already were living on the edge of their budget, they can’t afford food and rent today. It’s, it’s terrible. So I would, I would certainly be cautious of c-class property as much as I would love to provide affordable housing. You know, it’s a, it’s really going to be a sector that could be hit hard.

Charles:
Yeah, that’s what I see. And I, I guess it’s already started. I had no idea. You read and you hear different things from different places, but when you’re actually talking to people, boots on the ground that are telling you you’re like, wow, that’s, it’s, you know, even in one of the hottest markets, it doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s still gonna come back and you know, people have trouble paying rent, they have trouble paying rent and that’s just in that c class is mainly where you have it. But so with your strategy of like, you’re buying multifamily, when do you buy, I was reading when I was researching for this episode that you’re more of a buy and hold investor mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So tell us more about that and tell us kind of how does that change your underwriting? And I mean, you know, how does it change compared to a normal, I guess you would say value add multifamily investor?

Kathy:
Well, I believe in both. I certainly believe in value add vinyl, <laugh>. So I, and I wouldn’t be opposed to buying an apartment and if I get a great offer, selling it and making a great profit, the thing is, so many people took advantage of these bonus depreciation tax benefits and, you know, it’s been, it’s been incredible that, that Trump tax incentives on, on real estate people really got some great rewards. But then when you sell the property, you gotta pay all that back. So, you know, that’s, it’s like basic, basic stuff that I do, which is just boring buy and hold. Because if you, if you buy a property finance it, you obviously, you know this someone else is paying, you know, the tenant is paying off your debt for you while the property is appreciating. Over time you’re getting tax benefits and it, it’s just all comes together to bring incredible wealth.

Kathy:
However, once you sell it, a lot of that’s wiped out because if you sell it now you gotta pay taxes on the, the gain you’ve gotta pay back, you know, the, the recapture of the taxes. So, you know, it’s why, why sell? I’ve always been a firm believer if you’re gonna sell at least 10 31 into something else so you don’t have to pay the taxes. And so anyway, that’s, that is my thought. It’s just the good old boring buy and hold, hold it forever, get good quality A or B class assets and hold them. Just hold, I don’t like old, I want, I wanna be a newer vintage 2000 and up I won’t leverage over never over 75%, but I try to keep it at 70 and hold it because that’s, that’s how you create freedom in my opinion. Flipping apartments is, is work <laugh>, you know, unless you’re a passive investor. And granted, listen, the last years, especially last year, but the last few years people have made fortunes in, in apartments. I just, I’m not sure that that’s gonna continue in that manner, at least not until rates go down again.

Charles:
Yeah, I believe so. And I think that, like you were saying earlier in the show that about rent increases not continuing in a lot of the hot markets. I totally agree with that. And that’s gonna be leveling out, which is gonna level out a lot of value add operators that are just banking on getting into markets where there’s just crazy appreciation cause there’s not enough units. So Yeah. But so you’re, you’re, you do a lot of deals all over the United States and you have different markets. Cause you’re saying you’re finishing up something in Florida and so how important is it when your, is like partnering when you’re getting, when you’re investing outta your home state or you’re working with larger projects that you’re not boots on the ground for

Kathy:
Managing it? When, when I’m out of state, while you’ve gotta have a great team, right? Yeah. You gotta have a great team. That’s how we started Real Wealth. Our, our company was Rich and I just, we listened to Kiyosaki, we jumped on an airplane, we went to to Dallas. We met with a real estate agent who met us at the airport and, and she said, oh, I’ve got a great neighborhood for you. And it was a just very expensive neighborhood where no cash flow. She was just trying to get a commission. So we learned really quickly that oh my gosh, you know, you can really get ripped off if you’re buying outside of where you live. You can get ripped off where you live too. Yeah. But especially with a California, you know, license play van, they’ll take advantage of you all day long.

Kathy:
So we thought, who’s gonna be less willing to rip us off? And at the time we just thought, well what about a property manager? Cuz that’s a long term relationship, you know, they, they know the market, they know where the calls are coming from. And so we just met with like five or six property managers and, and got the data from them like, where are you getting calls from and who are these people and where do they wanna live and where’s the path of progress? And back then again, 2004, they weren’t very good. You know, most property managers were pretty awful, but it was still more reliable to me than, than an agent who was just kind of looking for a commission. Right. And that’s how we started building our team. And then we’d share that team with our members at Real Wealth and they’d use that team.

Kathy:
And then the more we would use the same property managers, the more they’d wanna take care of us. Because if one investor in our group got mistreated, you know, everyone would know about it and it would affect, you know, we could all pull and move to a different property manager. They didn’t want that. So there was kind of power in numbers, you know, having a network. That’s one way, but you, you know, I have done deals where it didn’t go well because these teams have got to be, boy, when you, when you are out of state trusting a team, you better do background checks, you better stay on top of things. It’s, unless they have decades of track record, you know, you just don’t know. People can change. We’ve had situations where a team we were working with for years successfully just kind of like something happened in the family or you know, that all of a sudden their services went way down. So you gotta pay attention at the end of the day. I’m not really sure there’s anything really, truly passive because you have to pay attention to your investments. It’s your money, it’s your money, it’s your future. You gotta pay attention to it.

Charles:
That’s a lot. That’s really great information on the property manager. I never really thought of it in that terms. They have a lot more alignment of interest your property management does. Cuz obviously they’re getting paid on percentage of rent than a agent. That’s just, once they get their check, they’re done with you

Kathy:
One and done, man. They don’t care if it didn’t rent. You know, and oftentimes they don’t have a clue about investment problem.

Charles:
No, no.

Kathy:
So, you know, this particular agent thought, oh, this is a really nice neighborhood where Californians can afford to live. It had it, it certainly wouldn’t have made sense as a rental. Right. So she just, she didn’t probably own rental. She didn’t know. So I thought, well gosh, I wanna talk to somebody who owns rentals. Well that would be probably a property manager. So we did look for property managers who own their own rentals as well, so they understand. Yeah,

Charles:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you interviewed five or six or seven. That’s, that’s great. That’s exactly how you’re supposed to do it. So, fantastic information. One thing because you have a podcast, you have a couple of ’em on, and one of them is on the markets. When you are researching markets or reading up on the economy what, you know, what, what sources are like your go-to websites or sources that you like reading up on?

Kathy:
Well, you know, I, I’ll often find out where I, I follow employers, right? Number one mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So where are employers moving to? And that’s, that’s really important. You can find that at the local chamber. You can find that just by reading business, you know, articles and, and, and following it. I mean, look at what happened to Austin. You know, so many companies moving there. Same with Dallas. So following where businesses are going. And again, the chamber can tell you a lot of that. I, I really like John Burns real estate consulting. They offer some really great insights on, on demographics. He wrote a great book on demographics and where people are moving to following census, information like that. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you’ve probably seen U-Haul and different reports that come out in January showing where people are moving. So I’m just constantly looking for data and information that’s gonna tell me again where the job’s going, where are the people going and where do the numbers still make sense? Because if, if people are priced out of a market, you know, there’s only so far you can push rents, you know, before people say, forget it, I’m gonna go somewhere else. I can’t afford this. And, and I think the rents have been pushed. <Laugh>, they’ve been pushed enough.

Charles:
Yeah. They’re consistently pushed. And especially now in this inflationary environment, they’re being even, I think they’re being pushed even more. So it’s, it’s crazy. But yeah, the other thing too I found is that those are great sources and they’re more up to date. Cause if you’re searching, if you’re doing research on an area, sometimes you’re getting like, or normally you’re getting three year old, something like this data, which doesn’t really help, right? Yeah. Data in 2019 is not gonna help you, you know what I mean?

Kathy:
It does not help. The world has changed

Charles:
<Laugh>. Yeah. dramatically. So it’s something that that’s, that’s great. It’s great to be able to use it. And the moving wounds are great. I think Rider has one as well too. So, yeah. And Mayfair, like all the truck lines, right? That’s it. The truck lines have it and so you can really hone in on where people are actually going to, which is a little easier. And then I think with finding employers, that can be a little bit more difficult. It’s gonna take a little bit more research on that and compare. But yeah. What you have to do prior to getting into any type of market. So

Kathy:
Yeah. And then like I said, just, you know, chamber of commerce is, are great. Like here you’re gonna see you’re gonna see articles of like, oh, the top 10 markets for growth or whatever, you know, on Forbes and, and such. But then you can kind of dive in from there and find out, okay, now I can just call the chamber and say hey, I saw that you’re one of the fastest growing cities. You know, where <laugh>, where’s development? Where are you building new freeways? Can you tell me? Or better yet, if you’re there, walk into the planning commission and they’ll, or you know, planning office and they’ll tell you, especially if you bring donuts. So they’ll, they’ll kind of tell you what’s going on and what’s slated and what’s planned so that you can get in front of it. Because even when we were investing in Dallas, there were parts of Dallas that did not grow.

Kathy:
That’s not where the jobs were going. They were going north and you had to be aware of where that was, where it was headed. And if you kind of bought in a part of town that had higher crime or you know, not as good as schools, you could be watching everybody else make money and your, your, your home values the same. Plus there’s lots of crime, which is why City Dash data is a really good website. You probably use that to find out crime rates and income levels and you know, get a lot of information on the area, the specific neighborhood.

Charles:
Yeah. Cri Yeah, crime, crime is one huge thing that we always, one of our top three that we’re looking at when we’re reviewing a market. The other thing too is that yeah, like you said about the msa, once you have the MSA, now you really have to drill down into that neighborhood, into the specific areas of where you really want to be investing. Because like you said, just cuz one part’s growing doesn’t mean the whole thing’s growing, so. Right,

Kathy:
Exactly.

Charles:
So Cathy, you work, you, you work with a lot of real estate investors. You you coach them. What are common mistakes that you see real estate investors make?

Kathy:
Well, right now you know, if we’re talking about bigger deals, I again am seeing a lot of multi-family deals come across my desk that absolutely make no sense. And, and still some where people aren’t counting in that everything’s getting re-priced. So you can’t base prices today on what they were just a few months ago or a month ago. Everything has changed and is changing right now. There, there are. So again, I wouldn’t buy something that hasn’t been re-priced at this point. That’s a big mistake. Buying too low a cap rate and just, you know, where are you gonna go from there? That’s just, you know, especially in a market like this. And then looking at the financing, if it’s a, a bridge loan, you know, maybe, maybe rates will be backed down in a few years, but it’s risky. It’s super risky.

Kathy:
I’d rather take on an apartment that has a fixed rate loan for five to seven to 10 years. And that to me, I would be okay with. So and then pushing the rents, you know, again, I’m seeing people when they, when they bring projects to us where the comps, the rental comps are just not real. They’re not real comps. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So you’ve got to really dive in. And then the worst thing I’m seeing is some people getting into the syndication business without doing any, any of this. You know, they’re just like, oh, this is my buddy. He found an apartment, let’s do it. And they haven’t dove into the numbers or the deal. They don’t even know the deal. And they don’t know the structure of the deal. They don’t know if they have any voting rights or, you know, any control at all, or if, if there’s a track record with this team. So a lot of, lot of exuberance, but there’s usually exuberance before a down, you know, before a downfall. So lots of exuberance out there. Lots of, you know, just ignoring the, you know, the fundamentals and then the due diligence that’s necessary.

Charles:
Okay. Great information. Yeah, it’s it’s, it’s crazy out there with what people are putting in offers on and they’re seeing that they got debt that’s going over what cap rates are and it’s can’t really make money with that,

Kathy:
So just doesn’t make sense. No,

Charles:
Sadly,

Kathy:
You

Charles:
Know, yeah. But it’s just where we are stuff hasn’t been repriced and then some has, like you were saying. But so Kathy, what are some of the main factors that have contributed to your success over decades of being a real estate investor and being in a professional life before that?

Kathy:
You know, some of the mistakes I’ve made was not having the right team. So the things I’m doing right today are having the right team <laugh>. You know, don’t ski on your team. Make sure you get the best and, and get people who are better at things than you. So in the beginning when I started, I would bring in somebody who is maybe good at flipping to underwrite, you know, new construction. You know, that’s, they’re different. You know, you can’t go to a, a note guy and expect them to know multi-family. So just make sure that who you bring on your team is an expert, they’re worth the money. And if you can’t afford that, then make sure you become an expert. You know, study everything you can. There’s so much information on YouTube and on podcasts and there’s courses you can take, but still, if you’re gonna use other people’s money, you better make there’s, make sure there’s somebody in the deal on the management team who has been there, done that is, has had great success because you don’t wanna gamble with other people’s money.

Charles:
No, no. Great information. So how can our listeners learn more about you and your business? Cathy?

Kathy:
You can go to real wealth.com and join. It’s free, there’s lots of information there. And then you get connected with our network of property providers and, and property managers. And then of course, my podcast is the Real Wealth Show and I have, my second podcast is Real Estate News for Investors. That’s like a seven minute daily little news show to keep people on top of what’s going on in the market.

Charles:
Well, that’s great, Kathy. Well thank you so much for coming on today and looking forward to connecting with you here in the near future.

Kathy:
Sounds great. Thanks so much for having me.

Charles:
Thank you.

Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

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About Kathy Fettke

With a passion for researching and sharing the most important facts on real estate and economics, Kathy is a frequent guest expert on such media as CNN, CNBC, Fox News, NPR, CBS MarketWatch and the Wall Street Journal. She is the author of the #1 best seller, Retire Rich with Rentals, and host of two long-running RealWealth podcasts – “The Real Wealth Show” and “Real Estate News for Investors.” You’ll also find her on the recently launched BiggerPockets “On the Market” podcast as one of several co-hosts. Kathy received her BA in Broadcast Communications from San Francisco State University and worked in the newsrooms of CNN, FOX, CTV and ABC-7. She’s past-president of American Women in Radio & Television.

Kathy became a certified personal coach through the Coaches Training Institute in San Rafael, California. In 2001, she took the coaching process to television and produced a cable show called “DREAM” which followed the process of 6 people going after their dreams over 90 days. Kathy noticed a theme on her Dream coaching show: most people don’t have time for their dreams when they are spending all their time at work to make money to pay the bills.

Her show sponsor was a real estate expert and the segments they produced changed her life. After interviewing dozens of real estate millionaires, Kathy discovered their best strategies for creating passive income streams. She and her husband bought numerous investment properties and since then learned the highs and lows of investing that can only come from hands-on experience.

She is passionate about learning more and sharing that information with the members of RealWealth and her podcast listeners. Kathy loves the freedom that real estate investing can bring. She is an avid traveler and enjoys hiking, rock climbing, skiing, figure skating and surfing. She lives in Malibu, California with her husband, Rich. She also has two daughters and one grandson who live nearby.

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