Announcer:
Welcome to the Global Investor Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host Charles Carillo combines decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now, here’s your host, Charles Carillo.
Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast. I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today we have Brent Bowers. He is an investor and coach focusing on buying and selling vacant land as an army officer with over eight years of service, Brent was spending a great deal of time away from his family, and he knew he needed to make some changes to be more present with his wife and children. Brent desired to expand his business and hire a team. While Brent invests in many real estate types, his favorite investment strategy is buying and selling vacant land, which is what we’re gonna be talking about today. So thank you so much for being on the show today, Brent.
Brent:
It’s great.
Charles:
You have a very interesting story. Can you give us a little bit more of your background, both personally and professionally prior to get involved in real estate?
Brent:
Yeah. Prior to Real Estate, boy I, I really got started in 2007. I graduated high school in 2004. I’ve always been an entrepreneur. I’ve, I’ve always wanted to sell stuff. I, I built a lawn business. I actually borrowed the neighbor’s lawn push mower when I was in like middle school, and I was mowing other people’s grass with it. Now, to their knowledge, they allowed me to do it, and built a pretty decent sized business and then jumped in the real estate in about 2007. And really kind of like just, I struggled until about 2009 and I quit. And then I, I joined the military and I was extremely humbled.
Charles:
I was in the military till about 2018. I was haphazardly doing some, you know, real estate deals throughout the military and was wholesaling houses and buying rental properties. And those were all single family homes, but these, these weren’t the best properties. And I was doing a lot of evictions, a lot of maintenance, a lot of repairs, and I was like, how do people ever make money in this business? And, you know, I was searching for pod for, for answers on podcasts just like this. And I found a guy talking about vacant raw land, and I was like, no one ever talks about this. Yeah. And I took, I took immediate action that evening.
Charles:
Awesome. So bringing you into real estate in oh seven, and then back in, I guess in like you know, 10 years ago or so over that time that you were in the Army, can you tell us what, you know, what drew you back to real estate or into real estate both those times?
Brent:
You know, I just knew that people made a bunch of money in real estate, and I’ve always had an attraction to it. I don’t know where the initial attraction came from. You know, I used to read Donald Donald Trump books when I was in like, you know, high school. So maybe it was from that, I don’t know. Everyone says Rich Dad, poor Dad. I, I don’t give him credit whatsoever. Great book, by the way. But you know, that’s not where it came from. But I, I, I swear if I had like a $5 every time someone said, rich Dad, poor Dad that would be awesome. But yeah, I don’t know. I just, I love, you know, finding one man’s trash and turning it into another person’s treasure.
Charles:
No, that’s great. Yeah. My, I think my first real estate book I read was Art of the Deal by Trump, like in the late nineties.
Brent:
You’re Kidding me. I think that was mine too. I saw the book over here.
Charles:
Yeah, it’s pretty, it’s pretty great. I it’s a, he signed another book like in 2000 to me or something. ’cause I was, it was, it was pretty great back in the day, but it was, it was such a great book. I mean, you got anybody interested in real if you didn’t read that want get into real estate. So I don’t credit, I don’t credit Rich Dead Poor, that was like down the road more. But like, I read that and I was like, oh my God. Like real estate development is like, this is, this guy’s got it. Like all planned out here. But so you were, you know, you were switching from going from homes to land investing. Obviously you’re having issues with, I it sounds like you were investing in some poorer properties. Is, I mean, is that one of the main reasons why you switched to land was no tenants?
Brent:
Yeah. And no one else was doing it. You know, I’m from Okeechobee, Florida. The, the biggest producer of income in the county I grew up in is feeder calves, you know, cows. And I know, I know about the herd mentality. Eventually the herd will get slaughtered. So one thing I I found is like, when you follow the direction of everyone, you’re usually going down the wrong path. And no one was talking about land. No one, I wasn’t even looking at land. And I, I, I know why I wasn’t looking at it. I was driving by it every day. You know, I always wanted to own land, but I’d never knew how to pay for land or how it would make me money. And most people don’t either. How I’m making money with it is I’m buying it for, for cheap and selling it for more, and preferably on payments because that gives me my passive income, the seller financing deals. And, you know, it’s just that. And it just turned into something great. You know, I, it, it immediately, I I was immediately profitable and forever profitable on land deals. My first house that I bought, I was never profitable from 2007 all the way to 2019 when I sold that stinking thing, I still wasn’t profitable.
Charles:
Yeah, it’s difficult with smaller, like single family houses, you really have to buy for pennies on the dollar to make money. It’s very difficult. And it’s very expensive too when you’re having the turnover. But, so let’s jump into your land investing strategy. Like what type of properties are you targeting? Like what have you narrowed your focus down to that have been most beneficial for you?
Brent:
Yeah. Nine outta 10 of my deals lately in the past two years have been, you know, we call ’em infill buildable lots. Like, you know, lots that are are on a road that have some sort of utilities running to it, whether it be electric and water. And, and, and I hate to say just electric and water ’cause there’s a lot of lots we buy that don’t have electric or water where, where you have to drill a well, bring in the power. But those generally I have to get for a little bit less money. You know, even, even bigger discount. Because when I love about, about land, when I’m, when I’m not sure about something, when I’m like, okay, I’m not, like, I’m not sure exactly what this is gonna sell for. That means I have to be even more conservative, getting even bigger discounts, a bigger, bigger hedge of protection. So I would say most of my lots have are just simple cookie cutter lots. They’re in a neighborhood or they’re just on the outskirts of town, like they’re five acre parcels or the one acre parcels. Just super simple stuff. I’m not doing a bunch of entitlements or subdivides or putting in roads. None of that stuff, that’s too much work.
Charles:
So when you’re dealing with inflow infill lights, infill lots, I feel that you know, that’s gonna be a little bit more competitive at all with developers looking to buy, build on those. I mean, how are you finding good land deals and motivated sellers so that it pencils for you?
Brent:
Yeah, and I don’t think the competitors are my co I’m sorry. I don’t think the developers or the builders are my competition. They’re my buyers. You know, they’re my gravy train. Like what do builders do? They need stuff to build on and they build. They don’t have the marketing programs that I’ve been able to build to get me land deals in my inbox in my email. And, and I’m a, what I call is a order taker. Basically, they tell me what they’re looking for and I go and fill the orders. It’s like, welcome to McDonald’s. What would you like <laugh> type thing. So, you know, as far as those cookie cutter lots, yeah. There might be other people looking to, to buy those as well. Especially in the areas of like, like Florida, where there’s a ton of demand, certain neighborhoods. Yeah. You’ve got a, you’ve got competition in those areas. But the way I look at it is, you know, success leaves clues. There’s a reason why people are buying and selling wind in those areas too.
Charles:
Right, right. What do you do this on a nationwide basis? Have you or are you in certain states?
Brent:
Yes. I pr I really like the focus in Florida. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and Georgia and Alabama and, and North Carolina. Those like the southeast, I really star, I started this in Colorado and then expanded into Arizona and then to Florida now where I currently live. But you know, I’ll buy land anywhere that I can get a smoking hot deal on because, you know, I love to be in about the 50% range. Like right now I’m looking at a bigger parcel than what I usually buy. I’m looking at 309 acres in Florida. Well, the land is selling for about 16,000 an acre average per acre, and I’m getting it for 8,000 an acre. There is such a room for error in that. Like, there’s such a margin of safety. Like, like Warren Buffet talks about, you know, I’m buying at like 50 cents on the dollar. You know, a lot of things could go wrong with that, but there’s so much room for error as well.
Charles:
So my next question is, how do you determine the value? I mean, how do, how do you determine the value to put an offer in where, I mean, it’s not in complete left field, you know where you are gonna have a somebody that’s wants to sell it to you.
Brent:
Yeah. When I first started out, I had no clue. I was just like sitting, I was looking at the assessed value and I was offering 10% or no 50% of the assessed value, which turned out to be about 10% of the market value. And not all counties work like that. There’s over 3,300 counties in the United States. That’s why, another reason why we virtually had no competition in this business. ’cause Every county is different. It’s not like cookie cutter houses, three bedroom, two bath, one car garage. But I had no clue in the beginning. But now I, we have free resources. We have Redfin, we have Zillow. We can see what the land is selling for in a particular neighborhood. And we know if it’s selling for a hundred thousand dollars a lot, and if I offer $61,000 a lot, you know, there’s plenty of room for me to make money on that land deal.
Brent:
Maybe I don’t have any money. Maybe someone listening to this is like, man, I don’t have, I don’t have the money right now to buy the land. Well, what if I got that land under contract for 61,000 and I call one of those builders that’s buying directly in the area. You can see who’s buying one of those builders and say, Hey toll Brothers, I see you’re buying land for, you know, $95,000 a lot. What if I sold this one to you for 85? I got it under contract for 61. You know, 71 81. That’s a pretty good spread. That’s like $24,000 by me just selling the contract.
Charles:
Right. Interesting. So with these, you talked about before about having an exit strategy of really putting it on terms and you know, really seller financing the properties. Are you doing that as well for in infill lots? Or are you doing that mainly for, let’s say more rural lots?
Brent:
Yeah, it works really, really well on the rural lots. I’ll do it on any one of ’em. I can not all of ’em. Does it work out that way? It depends. Do I have my own cash into that deal? Is it a lender’s cash? How quickly do they want their cash back? It all depends. Like for instance I have a land deal really close to Daytona Beach in the Daytona Beach area. Five acres just sold. I bought it for 153,000. I do have a lender on that one. She lent me like 65,000 on it. I had like, whatever the rest, 90,000 or so in it. And it sat on the market for like several months and I’m like, man, I can’t believe this land hasn’t moved. And then all of a sudden, three months later, like we, we it was exactly three months.
Brent:
We got an offer, 25,000 down. They’re gonna, they, they offered 225,000 total. We paid 1 53 and they wanted to pay 25,000 down and have us finance them at 11% interest for the next 30 years at 2000, $28 a month. And I said, let’s do it. So I, I contacted my lender. I said, Hey, do you want to keep earning interest for the next, you know, couple years on, on your money? ’cause I’m paying her 12% interest. How can I pay someone 12% interest? And I’m, I’m only getting 11%. Well, I’m paying her 12% interest on 65,000, which is 600 a month or so. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I am getting 11% interest on 200,000 on a 30 year mortgage. So she said, sure, yeah, we can do it for another year. So I got basically a year to pay her that 65,000 back.
Brent:
And some people might be thinking, well, what if I don’t get it in a year? You know, we’ll just do another land deal and pay for that one. But I’m, I’m in the volume game. Like I don’t want land sitting. We just sold six lots for cash in really close to Orlando, Florida. They, they were listed at 55,000 each. We sold them all for 35,000 each. And my realtor’s like, are you sure? Like, you wanna sell ’em? I was like, yeah, we’re gonna make $70,000 profit. ’cause We bought ’em for a hundred and I think 30. We sold ’em for two 10. Like, let’s just take the profit and go to the next one. How
Charles:
Did you find those those people that want to sell that?
Brent:
So, I have a very unique strategy. It’s I go in and I find demand. I wanna see demand because I never want to get a pe. So I used to buy that land in the middle of nowhere for years and I’d have to work like heck to sell it. I would sell it on Craigslist and Facebook marketplace, Facebook buy, sell groups. I put signs out. This is when I lived in Colorado Springs. I would do like Facebook ads and I’d pay Facebook a lot of money. Don’t pay them money. It didn’t work for me. But anyhow, I was working like crazy to get the sold. I had two virtual assistants, two people answering the phones all day long, create notes. And I was like, there’s gotta be a better way. So I started going in areas where it was like hyper demand.
Brent:
Like, like I see five or six parcels of land selling in a week in a, in an area. I’m like, okay, what if I figure out what they’re selling for? Alright, they’re selling for about a thousand dollars a square foot. I’m just making this number up and I go in and offer $500 square foot. I know that if I, if one of these people signed this purchase agreement that I just mailed them, I’m gonna have a deal. So I use a program of, if anybody wants to access to the program, just go to the land sharks.com/c RM as in customer relationship manager. But I use a program that sends those out every day for me. I try and send out about 500 a week, 500 letters a week. And on average every 1100 that I send out, I get one back sign that’s gonna make me at least $10,000 before we sell or finance it.
Charles:
Wow. Fantastic.
Charles:
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Charles:
Yeah. And then, so when you’re finding these land buyers, you’re going through, like you said before, it’s easier to find the developers. Are there any other kind of strategies you’d use that’s successful for finding land buyers that maybe aren’t your toll brothers or larger developers?
Brent:
Oh yeah. The real estate agents, when they list this land you know, that’s, that opens it up to the world. And in conjunction to that, signs, signs are incredible. Yeah. You know, four acres will finance phone number, like that’s gonna get your phone ringing off the hook. I, I recommend putting them at red lights and stop signs main intersections, on and off ramps of, of interstates. That’s how we get buyers. Again, Facebook marketplace, Facebook buys sell groups who wants to land more than anybody else. The neighbor usually. Yeah,
Charles:
That’s
Brent:
True. So we send them neighbor letters. We, we, we’ll text the neighbors there, there’s a buyer for every piece of land.
Charles:
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. It’s funny ’cause I live in Florida and if I’m going across east to west, I’m like 60 or 70 and you’re going like in the middle of nowhere and there’s like the signs out there, they’re like billboards almost. They’re like, be a man buy land. <Laugh>. Oh yeah. And like exactly. They’re, they’re out there. Oh, that’s the guy. So yeah, he’s out there selling land. Yeah. So what happens if you told me before about one issue or like one delay you had, I guess, in selling property? I don’t know the way to word it. And what happens if you’re unable to sell a piece of land? I mean, what other kind of, I mean obviously you probably try to sell it outright possibly maybe you put on terms kind of whatever you can get. What other strategies do you have of properties not selling other than maybe just lowering the price? Yeah,
Brent:
Absolutely. So I’ve been doing land specifically for seven years now. There’s never been a piece of land that I couldn’t sell. And I’ll give you a couple ways. Like I’m buying a couple parcels of land by Titusville. So now that I know you’re Florida, Florida guy I’m buying four parcels of land and it almost looks like they’re landlocked. And I know if I list them the way they are, they probably will sit for a while. But if you pay a a brush clearing guy, like we call mulcher to just go in and mulch the roads so people can see where the lots are at, as well as do a perimeter line around all four of those lots, I should be able to sell ’em quicker because now I can get drone photos to really showcase what’s there.
Brent:
Now we’re not gonna cut any trees down, but we’re gonna kind of, you know, just like mulch like, ’cause in Florida, like there’s so many vines and like, god bless the pioneers of Florida, like before roads, like I, I got so scratched up looking at this land and, and a lot of times I don’t even go look at the land, but I wanted to see where these roads were at. So I was like, I didn’t wanna get stuck with this land. It seems like a really good deal, but it could not be a good deal <laugh>. But so they’re gonna go and clear that. So that’s one way’s, just like a little bit of clearing to show people where it’s at. ’cause You wanna make it easy. Like, not everyone’s gonna be crazy like me and go get scratched up and walk through a ditch to, to get to the land.
Brent:
And you don’t have to do that to be a land investor. I just like, sometimes you need to go look or send somebody a land specialist real estate agent to go look at it. Drone photos really good, like video, really good pictures, really good. Ways to get land sold that won’t move. Seller financing, seller financing with signs. I had a, I had a couple lots in Palm Bay, Florida just sitting. It’s like, what in the world are these things? Like, and I say sitting like, they sat for almost 45 days, like, I want to like 30 days, get her done now, like type thing, get it sold. They’re just sitting. So I don’t live far from Palm Bay. So I went and looked. I was like, this house is going up everywhere. A lot of like, a lot of Spanish speaking Latino people that are building these houses. I was like, what if I just look on Google translate and figure out how to write in Spanish, you know, <laugh> land for sale. We’ll finance 2 99 a month. Well someone saw those signs and found out we had like six lots and bought ’em all for us for cash, like within a week.
Charles:
There it is. That’s fantastic. Yeah. So it sounds like you use a lot of strategies that might also be used in like maybe wholesaling a property, how you’re finding some of the buyers you’re doing like hotels, almost like where you’re prepping the property a little bit and then providing it a little cleaner product to the end buyer. So it’s a lot of, is is that true how you’re kind of putting together strategies like that?
Brent:
Yeah, I generally don’t clear the land very often. Okay. and I’ve never cleared a whole parcel of land. But yeah, I, I know a lot about whole hoteling houses. I’ve flipped probably about 50 houses. No, I really don’t do much to the land. I really just try and showcase it. It’s all about gorilla marketing. Because like someone told me one time, you know, it’s not who has the best land, it’s he who markets the land the best.
Charles:
Hmm, true, true. Very nice. So if you, you scaled your business and when you are getting more time with you and your family and I mean, what does your team look like today to be able to send out 500 per week and have all your KPIs where you know, you’re making $10,000 plus Yeah. And never eat 1100 envelopes.
Brent:
Yeah, I’ve went up and I’ve went down like two years ago we had around 15 team members the office. And things changed a little bit. Like I didn’t, I wasn’t liking the direction of that. I didn’t get into the land business to get rich. I really just wanted to replace my income that I was making in the military and have lifestyle freedom. Well when you, there’s thing called Parkinson’s law. When you get a bunch of time on your hands the task will basically expand. It’s like, you know, I give you an assignment tonight, you gotta write 1400 pages, like, or whatever, 14,000 words, you’re gonna get it done. But if I gave you to you six months ago, it’s gonna turn into a six month task. So I was scaling and building and like, let’s get to a hundred thousand dollars a month in land payments.
Brent:
Well, you don’t really need that. And I was turning into daddy daycare basically I was babysitting, like taking thousand phone calls a day. It felt like I wasn’t really taking that many. And my wife’s like, man, you’re not a happy person. <Laugh>, <laugh>. I was like, what are you talking about? I’m, I’m always happy <laugh>. Like, and she’s like, no, you’re just, you’re raging lunatic. Like, and we were also flipping houses and building a couple. I’m just like, this is nuts. And so we, we rented out the office, laid off pretty much everybody. I now have one part-time acquisition manager, one part-time assistant, one part-time accountant. And that’s it.
Charles:
And how, how are you when you’re putting it together? I mean, when you’re scaling, I, I imagine when you’re having your, for us, it’s easier when we have passive income, you know what I mean? You have deals, you have income coming in, it’s much easier to scale ’cause you have that prediction of recurring revenue. Has that been true for you as well as you’ve been growing? So you’re able to bring team members on and know that you’re gonna be, you know, you’ll have income to cover that and you’re not just like hiring and firing, hiring and firing.
Brent:
Absolutely. And the way I always brought team members on, I looked at them as they’re a three x investment. If I bring you on and I’m paying you $20 an hour, you shouldn’t, you should bring in the company at least $60 an hour. You know, obviously my, my accountant is paid salary and my my assistant paid salary. But my acquisition manager, he helps me with dispositions as well. Acquisition is to buying, disposition is a selling, but he’s paid by performance. Like he, if he doesn’t go out and kill, he doesn’t eat basically <laugh>. You know, and it’s just, he’s a, he’s a young engineer. He’s doing very, very, very well with his current engineering job. I used to also be a firm believer, like, you know, my acquisition, my dispositions, they only work for, for my company. That’s changed as well. Now my assistant, my, my accountant, they only work for my company, my three companies. But my acquisition manager, like, he’s just a young, young engineer and he’s got a lot of time on his hands. He is very smart and he wants to make money in real estate as well. And I’m fine with that. We do several deals a month and, and they’re decent deals.
Charles:
So Brent what are some common mistakes that you’ve, you see real estate investors or land investors in particular make over your years? Land
Brent:
Investors, I’ll tell you. They do a bunch of land deals, you know, for a couple years and they do what’s called the snowball effect. You know, they come into this with nothing, and then a year later they got a million dollars of their own cash into a couple land deals and things slow down and it’s like, holy crap. All my money is tied up into these land deals where I say you do a combination of them, assign a few, so basically sell your contract, flip a few of them to build your cash up and seller finance as many as you can, get some payments coming in because that’s where the, the, the real money’s made. And then the fourth one is use other people’s money to do it, you know, use other like surgeons and, and dentists and, you know, tech guys and engineers that just have 50 or a hundred thousand dollars cash sitting around that want to grow that money. And I pay them anywhere from eight to 13% on their money. And it allows me to build up cash reserves over here because no one can argue with this. If a company has cash, they are gonna be around for a while, but if a company has a lot of debt and no cash, they’re not gonna be around very long.
Charles:
So when you started, how did you find land investors? Because I imagine it’s much easier now for you to find land, invest private money lenders, let’s say, to invest into your deals. How did you do it when you started without much
Brent:
Private lenders
Charles:
Yeah,
Brent:
You know what, I actually just started working with private lenders about a year ago. I only used to work with hard money lenders. I’ll tell you how I find them now is I share what I’m doing. I’m just become, I’ve become a generous expert. When people ask me like, how do you do these land deals? I say, well, people just like you, Charles. What do you mean <laugh>? Well, you know, I find the land deal. It’s usually like 50 cents in the dollar. If it’s worth a hundred thousand, I buy it for 50,000. I use my neighbor Bob’s money. He’s like a, he’s a eye docker. He is an optometrist. He makes a a, you know, 8% on its 50 grand continuously, and it’s secured by real estate. Let me know if you ever wanna talk about it. And I walk away and we might talk about it again. We might not. And it’s like, I used to be afraid to like borrow other people’s money to do land deals. And I just paid one. My, my executive assistant is one of my lenders. It’s funny, she texted me today. Her parents wanna lend on land deals as well, which I’m honored. But Kelly, she’s gonna make like six grand this, this year. An interest on her, her funds that she’s got invested into a deal.
Charles:
Nice. That’s fantastic. So what are some of the main com factors that have contributed to your success over the years? Brent
Charles:
Man. The main factors is just taking action, just taking action immediately. Like if I wouldn’t have taken action that evening on listening to that podcast about that guy flipping land, I’d probably still be in the military, very unhappy listening to the four hour work week thinking, my God, why does this work for me? <Laugh>, because you gotta take action. That’s the main thing. Like, I have all these books on the bookshelf next to me. Have I read ’em all? No, no way. I love the buy books, by the way. But I’ve taken action on a lot of it. I do try and, you know, I think that books should be smaller and shorter and bigger, bigger font and more pictures so we can just take action. Like, that’s how the Land Sharks community in the course is set up. It’s like baby steps every day you get a win.
Charles:
Yeah, that’s great. That’s a great way of doing it. So you, you do what you know today to do to you know, get you closer to your future goal, but you gotta do something today. And most people are just like, preparing, preparing, preparing or the perfectionist end. It’s just nothing happens.
Brent:
Yeah, no. Go like, what, what’s that Enders game? How do you know they’re ready? Well, they go when they’re ready Enough <laugh>, you know, you’re ready enough today, like God gives you the answers to get through today. Tomorrow’s answers will come tomorrow.
Charles:
So. Well thank you so much, Brent. How can our listeners learn more about you, your coaching and your land investing business? Yeah,
Brent:
You can go to the Land sharks.com. I’d love to talk to anybody that wants to talk about land investing. But you gotta be serious. Like, don’t be, don’t be beating around the bush if don’t call me or, or schedule a call unless you’re serious and you wanna make some money in land right now. I’m on all the social channels, Brent l Bowers, and yes, the L Sands for Land. I had my middle name changed.
Charles:
<Laugh>. Well, thank you so much for coming on today, Brent. It was a pleasure to have you on and learn about your whole land investing strategy and business and looking forward to connecting with you here in the near future.
Brent:
God bless Charles. Thank you.
Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.
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