Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Joshua Pardue. He is a commercial real estate developer, advisor, and educator who has completed over $1 billion in transactions for clients, in addition to developing $250 million in real estate projects. Prior to founding his current companies, Joshua held executive roles at both PricewaterhouseCoopers and Colliers International. His firm acquired distressed commercial properties in the downturn, ranging from cold storage facilities in South Florida to a 200-acre residential project in North Port, Florida. Currently, his firm has projects in more than a dozen metros throughout the United States. Thank you so much for being on the show!
Joshua:
Absolutely, Charles, thank you for happening me.
Charles:
So I touched on your background a little bit, but if you don’t mind kind of digging down a little bit more into kind of what got you personally and professionally into what you’re doing now in real estate? Yeah.
Joshua:
When, when I was studying finance, I thought I was gonna go more traditional finance path, and then I started renovating houses and looking at cash on cash and realized this is a metric that was real and quantifiable versus some of the other stocks and other investment strategies. And then when I was done with undergrad shipped it over to the commercial focus brokering deals with a firm called Colliers International. Moved to New York at a different started a different company that rose debt and equity for development projects nationally, and then handled the backend sales after they were stabilized. And while, while building that business, the recession had hit I was splitting time between New York and Florida. And then so started a firm based outta Tampa that was just buying distressed assets from banks while they were, they’re down 50%, you know, in that time. It was very scary for several years. And then kind of, you know, fa fast forward another, another decade, and we’re now doing corporate build to suits, some land development, and then some urban infill nice mix throughout the state and the country.
Charles:
So when you went through the GOC, that was something you’re, you’re buying these distressed assets. And one thing I bought my first property in oh six and another one in oh eight, another one in oh nine. And what I realized was that it was very difficult as the end of that, you know what I mean? Those first three years of my investing career, those very difficult to get funding and financing. How are you funding these deals during that time? Yeah,
Joshua:
Great, great question. On on quick close assets of the banks, we were raising physician high net worth, individual private dollars. We were doing deals like that. It’s, it’s a lot of trust. Trust your sponsor, trust your investors. ’cause You’re, you know, when you’re getting into it. And then we typically close all cash within a couple weeks with the bank, the bank deals, and then your word is really your bond. And then during that time, anytime in business we would, you know, if you, if you tell someone you’re gonna get something done, the banker relies on you. If you get it done, great. They, they wanna show you and do other deals with you, but it’s important that you make the right decision. Commit to it, and execute.
Charles:
Yeah, it was crazy when I was, banks were giving, literally, I got some term sheets that were saying 15% loan to cost on something I’d already renovated, fully rented out. I had some private lenders saying they’d lend me half of the appraised value <laugh> it, it was, it was crazy.
Joshua:
Yeah. Some of the private lenders still like 50% loan to loan to cost or loan to value. Those are on unique, unique situations and really land, land deals as well.
Charles:
Yeah, it was I mean the, the, it was crazy. Yeah, it was, it was amazing. It must have been like 25% loan to value they were doing or something. ’cause How it was done in Connecticut where I was buying these. But anyway, getting back to you, what you’re doing. So kind of what, what drove you from what you were doing there into commercial development?
Joshua:
I’ve always enjoyed, I remember growing up playing with Legos, watching cranes. I always appreciated the infrastructure. But, you know, a lot of people in my including myself, didn’t understand how does development actually come together. And I kind of went on this mission to, to self-educate and to work with people that knew what they were doing, smarter in a lot of different capacities and learn from these different people while executing projects. And then, you know, when you work, when you’re helping other projects, these support, and then you’re running your own and you’re kind of running that down the line. That’s, that’s when I knew like, this is something that I really enjoy that’s unique and adds value, and I don’t think AI’s gonna replace it in our lifetime. Oh,
Charles:
So you have a few different, different companies that you work with that you own right now. Can you give us an overview of your businesses and kind of what your current investment strategy is? Yeah,
Joshua:
The the, the, the primary operating company is called JPRE development jp dev.com if you wanna check out the projects. And that business is roughly a third national kind of corporate build to suits. So think of one tenant, one lease, one parcel building based on just what that business needs that you agree upfront on 20,000 square feet with this type of development plant. Find the land, build it then they occupy it. The second main strategy is some of the distressed assets from the downturn. We’re still working through developing those. And that creates, creates a variety of different development projects ranging from mixed use, residential, retail. We did a storage project, we did cold storage, you know, when you’re buying the land, then figure out the development plan later. It’s a little different. The first scenario is a custom build to suit.
Joshua:
Second scenario is the opposite. You bought the land, right? And figure out what the highest and best plan is for it. And then the third scenario is my passion and kinda where, where we’re going in the future, which is really urban infill and kind of adaptive reuse and making downtown cores, urban cores of Florida cities. Great. And I believe there’s a big opportunity there to, you look at some of these cities in the Northeast and throughout the country and then you look at some of the Florida cities and there’s a big opportunity to urbanize and work on a, on those projects. And that’s something we very, we very much enjoy. We’re very heavily invested right now in downtown Jacksonville, downtown Tampa. We a few projects in downtown Miami and Fort Lauderdale. A few projects downtown Orlando. And I, and I really enjoy that as a born Floridian. I enjoy working on those, those types of projects. But that, but that urban historical we’re converting some, you know, converting churches, converting old buildings into new, new, new mixed use projects. It’s a lot of fun.
Charles:
Are you guys down in like, Ybor? Is that where you’re doing it? Down in Tampa? Yeah.
Joshua:
We just actually closed on two, two properties in Ibor last week. And we’ve already got the crew and they’re re renovating o older, older buildings and, and making them nice again. And then we’re supporting and on a, on a lot of other, from a variety of smaller projects that we’re the lead on through. There’s a gas roof project, which is getting a lot of a, a lot of media attention as a 50 acre project from the largest projects really in the country. And from an urban core perspective of converting the land between Ibor city and channel district into a master plan mixed use community, which is, which is really cool. I could send you some of the slides from that if you’d like to show it to the audience.
Charles:
Yeah. The IBOR, I, when I lived over in St. Pete, 2017 to 2021 or so I loved Ibor. I thought it was when I’d make it down there. I thought it was such a cool old Tampa type, you know what I mean? And there’s so much potential there. And it’s awesome that you guys are working on this and kind of revitalizing this. The one thing moving from down here, 2012 from Connecticut, Connecticut has some wealthy areas, but we also have some areas that were kind of hit by changes in manufacturing many decades ago. And you go to these places too, and it’s kind of, you know, beautiful buildings that haven’t been taken care of. There’s people that moved out that had money there and stuff, whatever. So you’re right, it’s a, it is a definitely something that’s a very unique niche. One of the things, when you said it, you said the word historic, which would scare me almost as an investor, unless you were with someone that really knew what they were doing, which it’s you. But how do you navigate like all these different municipalities, historic districts, as you’re nodding your head, so you know, this
Joshua:
<Laugh> Yeah, his historic, I I had an architect tell me early on that historic and adaptive, their passion projects. What do you mean their passion projects? Well, you know, there’s easier ways to make money in development and the Ritz and sometimes they’re often break even. And yes, yes and yes. You know, you’re there, there’s, there’s always a bunch of unknowns. There’s, there’s several extra layers of bureaucracy and whatnot. But on the flip side, when you look at a hundred year old building and you realize that you just made it, we, we just completed one. It was built in, I think 1911. And I think with what we, it was, it was really bad. The roof was about to collapse in these historic windows were about to collapse in. There’s water coming in the basement now it’s all dried in, as we call it. New roof, new wind, fixed windows. We had to restore the windows, new HVAC, all the moisture’s out based on the 18 inch block, it’ll probably last another a hundred years with, with without another major, you know, some, some, some maintenance. But potentially that building could last 500 years, if you know, or more if you, you know, you go to Europe, it’s, some of those structures are 1500 to 2000 years old plus. So so it’s, it, it is rewarding to work on the historic structures.
Charles:
How do you usually see the communities accept kind of the projects that you’re bringing? Do you have problems with any, maybe the boards? I would imagine the people living in those areas welcome it. There’s more better condition housing there. No one’s ever really complained about that per se. But how do you see when you’re going to zoning boards and local municipalities working with them? Are they pretty open to these ideas that you bring to them? It’s a,
Joshua:
It’s a mixed bag. Some that are informed and that you all have a relationship and they know what they’re talking about very much will often support what you’re doing. Others that have less information, it’s very easy for them to criticize and complain. <Laugh>, all things Dale Carne says not to do. Criticize can generally complain. You need to get a lot of that. And so I think that the, the key is just taking it in stride, saying a smile and understanding. Its, its misinformation. And then just explaining it with, with passion and energy and recognizing that you’re, you’re not gonna make everybody happy. But as a whole we’re very big on balanced development approach. Which means recognizing, appreciating the historic, you know, we’re not trying to tear these structures down by any means. We’re trying to bring them back tolo or make additions that make them economically viable.
Joshua:
And so right now in Jacksonville, there’s old it’s called Springfield Boss. It’s what we call the project. It was old Jewish Center, and then it’s a jobs corp building. A federal building went dark in the eighties. It’s been dark, you know, so you got basically a block and a storage shell. And the rest is decrepit. We’re looking to convert that into 78 apartments and 10,000 square feet of ground floor retail. And it’s such a challenging project that the city is gonna have to co-invest a little bit with us and provide different incentives because the cost of improving it is higher than the value based on the net operating income at a market cap rate. So you’re like, okay, well why am I gonna go spend 10 years? We’ve been working on it for 10 years, 10 more years, you know, five years, two years, three years, building it out and stabilizing it and then owning it. But the idea is that in, in five, 10 years, these markets will have come up and, and the numbers won’t be the same, but you gotta be able to get it, get it to, there is the, is the key.
Charles:
Yeah, I imagine it’s convincing them too. ’cause If you have 70, 80 apartments, that’s housing for almost 200 people and there’s probably a dozen jobs plus depending on the size of it for that retail there. So, you know, all these things I think politicians don’t really see, you know what I mean? And you gotta show it to ’em. Like you said, you
Joshua:
Gotta, it’s very manual and very hands-on. There’s no, no replacing the, the human relationship and talking folks through it.
Charles:
Before we move on, I had one question, because one more with this is that I’ve had some successful developers on the show before in commercial where they’re doing malls or strip malls through different areas. And one thing I kind of found is like a recurring theme was that they would partner with someone locally to, I don’t wanna say push deals through, but to assist them with getting deals to the finish line. Have you ever done that? Do you, is this something that maybe you, you you do once in a while when it’s required?
Joshua:
Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of that. I, the thing about development is every LLC form and every deal or project, it’s different depending, sometimes someone’s contributing, contributing the land. Other times you’re buying it, sometimes you need local partners. Other times your local partners are the GC and the architect and engineer. Sometimes you actually want a local operating partner depends on your role. With 80% of what we do, we’re we’re, we’re the lead or the operating partner whether it’s local or not. But if we are traveling across the country, normally it’s gonna have a deal with a, a credit tenant that says, Hey, once you get this thing open, we’re gonna lease it. We’re not typically taking on a lot of multi-tenant deals outside of the state that have more variability unless there’s partners. Yeah. Yeah.
Charles:
That’s probably the best. And then you would sell that property usually off after it’s finished. Tenant it,
Joshua:
You know, the, there, everyone has their own thing. Some, some folks never sell. Some folks sell everything. Some folks are opportunistic and situational. To, to date. We haven’t sold off a lot. We’ve, we’ve, we’ve elected to own and manage and control and, and kind of grow, grow on those assets. But, but each, each situation’s different.
Charles:
I don’t know what tendencies are, but for example, I guess if it was like a CVS and it was a single, you know, tenant building, that’s not gonna require much assistance or work on your part for a triple net lease.
Joshua:
Yeah. I mean once, once it’s up and running, that’s the bit of the triple net lease. Yeah, we just just left the call with Chipotle ear earlier today. We’re look, looking at at sites for them out out west and helping them out and right. Once, once you find the land and, and, and control it and build a building a lot of the rest they’re, they’re doing on site controlling their own property. ’cause That is their business model.
Charles:
So skirting a little bit from that because if you have already have a tenant lined up, you’re working with them, you already know what the kind of, I guess, end exit strategy’s gonna be or whatever. The thing is that we sold with a lot of people that are developing, let’s just say multifamily over the last few years that came online and they were having issues because markets changed. A lot of new product on the market, interest rates went up. Huge thing. I mean, as a developer, you’re taking on a lot of risk. And with commercial development, it’s not like building a house that’s gonna be done in a few months. We’re talking two to three years in most cases. Right. I would imagine from the beginning to the end, how are you, how do you kind of minimize your downside? Let’s just say protect yourself from any uncertainty and marking conditions, you know, between that time of beginning to completion?
Joshua:
Yeah. you know, there, there’s a reason why when things go bad, equity gets hit first, debt gets hit. Second is the way I’d say it. You, you, you can, you can never completely insulate from that. But what you can do is you can be smarter about each LLC and each investment. For example, we only use higher leverage if there’s a known income stream tied to the back, a credit tenant lease, for example. If we’re gonna do something that doesn’t have that much assurance, we’re gonna bring more equity to the table and have a lower loan and stronger parts. And then it comes down to deal size and scope and not, not biting off too much to where you spread yourself thin. And there’s a lot of ways to look at it, but you’re looking at the LLC and the business plan level and you have to look at how does that project and piece fit into everything else that we’re doing.
Joshua:
You never want anyone piece to be able to systematically poison the rest of what you’re working on, for example. And so balancing that out is really important. And I’d say, I’d say that’s why a portion of our business is land or the riskiest, most speculative, a portion of our business is the single tenant build the suits, which is known to be more stable. And then there’s other, other, other middle range forms of development in between also. And you kind of, b you’re balancing it all out. ’cause Sometimes the cash flow from your income properties are helping carry the costs, you know, the land and other o other assets.
Charles:
Yeah. The build a suit is is a great business because you already have that lined up, like you said. And the risk is obviously minimal or less than, you know, like you saying, buying land and going that direction. How does that conversation usually work? Are you finding maybe potential sites or is someone from your firm in contact with these different national players that say, Hey, do you want to expand to X, Y, Z you know, whatever it might be. How does, how does that usually kind of go that dialogue?
Joshua:
It depends on the size of the tenant’s business. If it’s a smaller business, you’re, you’re, you’re dealing with a few decision makers. If it’s a national retailer, there’s gonna be an assigned regional re director of, of an, of a state or with an area within estate. And it’s their sole job to identify new markets to expand into. And so the line that I like to share with people is when you’re in that discussion with a real estate director that needs to open stores, you don’t ask for the low hanging fruit. You ask, what is the challenging problem that I can solve for your business? What, what do you mean? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. What is the market that you’ve had an issue with? What’s a problem that you know, you haven’t been able to solve? And, and then by asking for it, you’re, you’re starting the spirit of the relationship on the right foot by saying like, I’m not just, you know, another guy here to make money.
Joshua:
Like I want to actually help you and put the client first and deliver that value upfront and keep going back to that. And if you keep focusing on delivering value and just recognizing I gotta create value for my stakeholders, I’m gonna capture a piece, <laugh>, it’s very easy for the market to allow you to capture a piece as long as you’re creating value for, for others. And that’s the best way to think about it. So in that scenario, we will ask for what markets to be a hard time in, then we’ll go out and find the land, put it under a contract. Sometimes the solutions aren’t readily apparent, so you have to dig deep, talk to off market landowners and contact the attorneys, the broker, the civil engineer, get all these people working in order to come up with a viable development plan. So like an example of a site plan for a tenant. And you take that to the tenant along with some rent estimates. And if you listen to ’em and you did it, you did it right. They’re excited, they wanna move forward with a lease. Once you solve that first couple problems, that’s how you build the relationship. ’cause Of course there’s a lot of people that want development for these great organizations.
Charles:
Yeah. And I imagine that puts you ahead of all, or pretty much competitors in that market because they’re just looking for the easy deal that they can just kind of connect, be done with it, you know? So what would you say actually for people, maybe someone that advice, for someone that wants to enter the world of commercial real estate investing or developing what would you say? Like get in on a brokerage side work with one of those firms beforehand. What would you suggest for someone like that?
Joshua:
How can I help you? How can I add value? How can I get involved? Questions like that, that show that you want to put in work and you want to help and you wanna learn along the way are by far the most important. If, whether you’re a broker or a developer, you’re still in theory doing a similar thing. Brokers charge a fee for adding a little bit of value. Developers get a bigger piece of the ownership for adding a lot more value and taking a lot more risk. But at the end of the day, if you approach it with a a servant leadership mindset where you’re there to add value for others and help, regardless if you’re on the advisory side or if you’re on the development side, focus on that. And, you know, I’d say, I’ll say 10 20% of our business is still advisory.
Joshua:
‘Cause Sometimes we’re working with the intention of doing a development project. And we’ll will learn, for example, we have a medical client that seven or eight out of 10 deals will develop for ’em. But a couple times I’ll fly in there and I, the team finding sites in advance. We’ll find a building that’s for lease and it’s not for sale, and it’ll work for the client. And instead of, instead of trying to force a deal that’s not there, I’ll just tell my client, Hey, it’s in your best interest to lease this building. Oh, but, but you don’t own it. You don’t get to develop it. It, it’s fine. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, get the deal done. You take a little brokerage fee, you, you solve the problem, but you focus on the relationship. And if you do that consistently, what the mar marketplace rewards that. ’cause A lot of people don’t focus on the relationship.
Charles:
Yeah. It’s a, a lot of it’s and I I, you know, in business in general, it’s just kinda like one and done. And then if you see something like that where you’re ready to write a bigger check and someone tells you you can write a smaller check, then your trust level goes up with them no matter what it is from getting your car fixed to what you’re, you know, building a commercial property. I feel that it is, you know, that trust is just, you know, that relationship has just made so much stronger
Joshua:
To, to that, to that advice to, to your audience. There, there’s a, there’s a really good saying that I heard recently that’s, I I make long-term investments with long-term people. ’cause Long range is where the gains are. And it’s the point that when you’re working on things that you’re transactional, it’s, even if you do get it done, you didn’t do, you didn’t service the relationship. And it’s 10 times harder to go get a new customer than keep a customer. So instead just paradoxically change your mind away from hustle culture focus on, i i this person align first. They call it the go no go checklist. Does this person do business in the category? They’re looking to do business? Yes. Do they have a need? Do they have the ability to conduct all those common sense business questions? But the other half of that checklist, do you have rapport?
Joshua:
Do you have trust? Do you have respect? Do you like the person? Is the person like you? Does the person wanna see you and your business succeed is one of the most underestimated questions out there of asking yourself. I normally know that people that I will work with and work for, they would genuinely be excited about seeing us succeed and make money. And if you have any doubt of that, that’s one of the things I’ve learned over the years. You, that’s where you wanna shy away. If your instinct isn’t great about the person forget if it makes money and you like the project or it’s good opportunity. It’s, you have to feel good about the person. ’cause In my experience, it doesn’t turn out great, even if the rest of the deal makes sense. So, so with that said, if you focus on the lifetime relationship and then X months in, you get to a scenario where you, you can make more or less money on something, if you make the lifetime relationship focused decision, the market will reward you. Maybe you, maybe it’ll cost you a little bit right then, but in the long run you’ll have a real relationship. And those, those are rare. It, it surprises me sometimes how shortsighted very smart people are and litigious and people are. But if you focus on that long range value, the the folks you wanna work with, the winners that they see that and they wanna align with you.
Charles:
And also I found ’em in commercial real estate through every syndication, whatever it might be. I mean, you’re in these partnerships. These are not short term things. I mean, these are 3, 5, 7 plus years that you’re with someone in business. That’s a lot of conversations you have to have. And if you don’t connect with that person or those people, it becomes a very difficult way of doing it, especially with your money and investors’ money and all these different conversations that you need to have to make sure a project is successful. So there’s a lot of great information there.
Joshua:
We’ve, we’ve done syndication deals before You give the offer ’em, Hey, we’re, we’re done. You want your money back. And they say, no, we’d like to do something else with you. Keep keep the money. Like hire, that’s the best. That’s, that’s the best compliment. Yeah.
Charles:
That’s inta. Yeah, definitely. When someone rolls the money into the next deal that’s a fantastic that’s better than any review they could ever give you, you know what I mean? So this is a pretty general question for all the different kind of parts of real estate that you’ve been involved in or are involved with currently. But what would be some common mistakes you see real estate investors make? And this can be in development, this can be just in investing. It could be anything that comes to the top of your head that you’ve seen before over the last, you know, couple decades of what you’re doing.
Joshua:
I really like going back to the long range gains perspective. People focus on the hustle culture and Bitcoin jumping up and down and focusing on stock trades and the algorithm. And that that is a way to do it. I suppose it’s better to be doing that than doing nothing. But I’d say it’s far superior to lay out like, where do I want to go with my life? How do I want my business to go there? And look as far out to the future as you can, take care of yourself, take care of your relationships, take care of your team, and, and approach it that way. And the longer out you can go and you can look and you could be patient for the larger, better opportunities you can get if you need to get a deal done in a week or two to, to make some money. Maybe you’re a recruiter calling to place a job. Okay. If you want your money in six months, maybe you’re a, a broker trying to get a deal done. If you’re willing to wait six years, maybe you’re a developer. If you’re willing to wait 10, 10 years, maybe you’re a fund manager, right? The, that, the, the market rewards people that are patient and willing to wait for their, for their return on time and investment.
Charles:
Yeah, that’s a lot of great information there, especially in this culture that we’re in now where everybody needs everything immediately. It knows that sometimes good things take time. So Jesu in preparation for this for this episode I was looking at, you have a ton of different education material. How can listeners learn more about you, your business? And if you wanna give us like a little overview of what you’ve got going on with your, your educational piece, your training piece
Joshua:
Of your business. Yeah, absolutely Charles. And to that point, when, when, when I started, it’s funny, I was in New York raising money for business 10, 15 years ago. I started doing these YouTube videos. The company said, oh no, you can’t use our logo and do this and do that. I’m like, I was pretty sure you guys are missing the bus. Like this is a good idea, good for the company and for me I I had to take those YouTube videos down teaching people how to invest in at least projects. And it was a little discouraging. I took from that I took off my thirties from dealing with social media where I wasn’t even going on my social medias. And then about two or three years ago we decided to do, I was deciding to do some case studies on current projects, and then I had this growing audience of young team members and ranging from analysts, associates, interns, colleagues that I’m working with, that I’m enjoying mentoring and coaching and watching their development.
Joshua:
And it went from kind of there to, Hey, let’s record some of this stuff. And I’d get jokes, like I’d said, like, the pigs get fed offs, get slaughtered you know, like tho those lines are gold, you know, sort of thing. And then so to date, we’ve just recorded a bunch of different things ranging from project case studies to mindset to the actual technical skills about development and finance that you’ll find on our YouTube, the, the Joshua Pardo YouTube. And then there’s also the other platforms, the Instagram, the TikTok and, and YouTube shorts where it’s a bit more of the, of the soundbites. At this point we’ve had a fair number of people reaching out, asking about, Hey, is, are there mastermind calls or one-on-one coaching? And to date, we haven’t launched any of that. I’ve just been helping people for free that kind of reach out, spend a little bit of time.
Joshua:
I like pointing people in the right direction. It feels good in life. But ultimately we’re aggregating that and we will do, do some form of a program depending on whether it’s choosing tent people and getting really deep with ’em or doing something that’s a lot broader. But in, in the interim, we’re putting out a material under the Joshua du under my name, under the different channels for free to help people learn and grow. And you, you said it earlier the, the idea is an, it’s like a little bit anti hustles culture. You know, you, I see these young people with a photos in front of the cars and, and, and, and stuff like that. And you realize like, wow, the, a lot of America is paying attention to this and is focusing on this, and this is actually the wrong, the worst possible advice you could give people, which is to create short instant gratification needs.
Joshua:
‘Cause That’s not actually how America works. America’s amazing. It can bless anyone. I, I tell people all the time, I came from a welfare house, a single mother where I was on food stamps, I was mowing lawns in middle school. I set up fish tanks as a kid doing anything to make money. And so if, you know, if, if I can grow a business in this country that really, pretty much anyone that’s in America, I’m a categorically say it like that can, if they’re willing to do it. But you can’t be looking for how do I, how do I hustle something in two days or 30 days or something like that. It’s a long term commitment. Yeah.
Charles:
After two decades as a entrepreneur, I’ve realized that everything’s more difficult than you think. And it takes a lot longer than you think, but and it’s, it’s more competitive. I mean, everybody’s out there doing their own different thing. It’s every, you couldn’t be more competitive today. So the people get rewarded that are gonna have that focus and really that, that drive in one direction. And if you start kind of skirting different ways, you’re gonna find yourself not really down any of ’em. As I found over the years,
Joshua:
It is challenging. And I, and I struggle with that too. There’s a lot of opportunity out there in finding your focus, but one line that I think is really valuable, people overestimate what they can achieve in a 12 month period, but they underestimate what they can achieve in five to 10 years. But you have to, but you have to be passionate. Be right about and, and stick with it, whatever, whatever that is.
Charles:
Joshua, thank you so much. We’ll put those links into the show notes. If there’s anything else you wanna share, if not thank you so much for coming on today and looking forward to connecting with you again. Thanks a
Joshua:
Lot, Charles. I appreciate you having me.
