Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Justin Mosley. He is a United States Naval Veteran who began real estate investing back in 2017 and now focuses on value-add Single Family Rentals, Townhome Development, and Boutique Hotels specifically tailored around short-term rental properties with a portfolio of properties across the Gulf Coast. So thank you so much for being on the show today, Justin.
Justin:
Awesome. Happy to be here, my friend.
Charles:
So it’s great to have you on here. I know you are, you’re really shaken here in the short term rentals. That’s what you’ve been really focusing on you live. We met through a mastermind, I guess a few, you a few years ago, and he lives about 20 minutes away from me here in South Florida. So we were able to connect here face to face once in a while, but so give us a little background on yourself, both personally and professionally prior to getting involved with real estate investing in general.
Justin:
Yeah. so grew up in Baltimore, so then grew up in South Florida, although I love it here now. And then end up going into the Navy to get the hell up out of there. Right. <laugh>. So <laugh>, like a lot of guys that come from you know, my city or just places like it. And ended up with a really great perspective being, you know, fortunate enough to travel, being Ford deployed overseas. I was in Japan for quite a bit and well, we were all over the place from, you know, in Asia south America. It was really, you know, eyeopening and cool just to see the world. So, you know, fast forward, end up coming down to Florida to go to college and you know, was working in Tampa, doing a corporate role. And, and that’s when I realized like, oh man, like this is, this is soul destroying.
Justin:
But before I really had that true epiphany I met my, you know, you know, then she wasn’t my wife then, but like she is now working for a job and immediately fell in love. And I told a story all the time because like, you know, she was like, you know, don’t get too attached because like, I’m, I’m English, I gotta go back to to England. I’m only here temporary to help, you know, the business expand here in the States. So when it was time for her to go back, I quit my job and went over to England and went to grad school because that was the only way I could get into the country. And, and from there, that’s when, when I, you know, thought about real estate and you know, what I want my life to look like and my next steps. And when we came back, we settled down in South Florida, and that’s where it began.
Charles:
So, with what was the kind of the, the magnet of real estate and why you chose it as your investment vehicle? There’s so many different ways of making money and building wealth out there today.
Justin:
Yeah, no, no, a hundred percent. And I think for me, you know, it, it’s, it really just boiled down to one, I think real estate has just tangible value or intrinsic value that it just made sense to me, right? Like at the end of the day, right? Like, you know, I, I went to school for financial economics and you know, we, we, we talk about, you know, all these derivative products and you know, the stock market. And at that point when I was really trying to learn and understand, I, I quickly realized, one, this stuff’s all gypsy magic, right? <Laugh>. Like there’s, you know, when you talk about stocks and stuff like that Bitcoin and all that, like, I think you can make money in those spaces, but you have literally no control, right? It, it’s really about consumer, you know, how they feel and all that kind of stuff where, you know, the logical place that it took me was real estate because you have a level of control over that investment in terms of the amount of income that you bring in and all those things. And the second reason, like owning real estate’s cool, right? Like, who, who, who is, no one’s ever ashamed to say, Hey man, I own a bunch of stuff, right? You know, so <laugh>. So it’s kind of like a more complex reason, but then the, the simple reason was like, it just made sense to me. And, and I love the idea of, of cashflow and, and that’s what really kind of piqued my interest and maybe jump in.
Charles:
Yeah, it’s a proven investment class for hundreds, if not thousands of years. I mean, it’s something that and any, I mean, it’s true any you work with family offices, we work with family offices, anytime they have, they have a large allocation in their portfolio, no matter how they made their money with real estate, no matter how it’s, so it’s a very interesting thing that you consistently see it over and over again so you know that you’re on the right path. You know what I mean? For
Justin:
Sure, for sure. Yeah.
Charles:
So come tell us a little bit about your firm right now, what your current investment strategy is and what you guys are, what you guys are doing.
Justin:
Yeah, I, I think we are unique. There are some other guys doing what we’re doing, but I, I like to think that we’re, we’re definitely trying to innovate in this space. And I say that because for one, it’s an education thing, right? So mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So, you know, it’s a real big push for us to get out there and, and educate people on the value of, of short-term rentals, right? I think when most people think of short-term rentals, and heck, I mean, I’ve even talked to real estate guys when I’ve said str, they didn’t know what the hell I was talking about, right? So when I say short-term rentals, generally a couple things come up, right? Like you know, stays less than six months, you know, or stays less than 30 days. People tend to think of Airbnb or vacation rentals.
Justin:
And the reality is, it’s, it’s all those things and so much more. So, you know, we really jumped into this space because we believe there’s massive opportunity and it will be its own like, asset class, you know, 10 years from now. So our, our real focus has been, you know, finding a niche within the SDR space. And what that looks like is, you know, going after really desirable markets where we see kind of the economic development, you know, taking place finding great locations, and then, you know, doing the, almost similar to multifamily, right? The force appreciation model, but it’s obviously, it’s not based off of the NOI and the cap rate, even though we evaluate these properties as such we’re doing it based off of comps. So then once we actually acquire the property, we force appreciate it based off comps, then it’s about the operations and really, you know, providing a great experience. And really in, at this point in time, in 2024, that’s where you win in the space. You know, a couple years ago you could pretty much throw any property up there and you were gonna crush it. But now the game has changed and it’s, it’s not mature, but we’re getting to that spot where you have to be a true operator and even start creating a brand around your properties to be successful in this space.
Charles:
Yeah, my wife and I stayed in a lot of Airbnbs and BBOs over the years, and you can just see the quality and kind of how you are, what you’re thinking when you go into a property too, of what you’re expecting. And it’s changed greatly since say, I don’t know, the first time I stayed in one, maybe 2015 or something. So it was like, it, you know, it’s, it’s been a huge change over the years of how it’s gotten more competitive and it’s really, you know, when you’re getting good reviews and you’re looking at places with good reviews, they’re, they’re really, if they’re done, they’re really done well. You know what I mean?
Justin:
Yeah. And, and, and that’s where the opportunity lies, right? Because a part of my thesis has been for, you know, your, I’m sure you have very sophisticated listeners and stuff, right? So, you know, back in 2012 or before 2012, you know, single family homes weren’t even looked at as a true, like, you know, asset class, right? Until the Blackstone came in, the private equity money, the America’s home for rents came up, and now, you know, these, you know, huge companies own thousands, thousands of rentals, right? So we’re effectively looking at it from that perspective, but then rather than getting your traditional, you know, two 50, $300 a month in cash flow you need that level of scale to make it advantageous, right? For these businesses. For us, we can buy significantly less properties, but have much higher cash flow when you’re talking about focusing on those operations. So it’s, you know, half, you know, real estate and have hospitality, and really, you know, using that model that’s kind of led us into, you know, boutique hotels, you know, smaller operator kind of operations where we can eliminate a lot of that kind of operating expense, but create a great experience use and leverage a lot of technology and processes, but that allows us to really juice up our returns for our investors. So it’s been, it’s been fun, man.
Charles:
So let’s talk about that for a second, because that’s something that differs from multifamily where you’re, you’re usually hiring a third party property manager, and it’s pretty straightforward of a process. There’s not a hospitality aspect to the business. So how does management work with, you know, your short term rentals or short term rentals in, in general, and how does that mix of really property management? Because if you’re owning the property, you’ve got your normal property management stuff, and then you also have these clients, these, I wouldn’t even say tenants guests that are really the hospitality place. So I mean, how do you handle management? I mean, how does that all work?
Justin:
Yeah, so we have our own property management company, and I’m just a huge advocate of when you are in the hospitality space, because I mean, effectively that’s what st are. You have to really have your finger on the pulse of like, what’s going on, what the experiences for the guests and for us, it just never made sense to outsource that, right? Yeah. And you know, I, I started off in multifamily, so I’m very familiar with kind of property management on that side. And, and you know, as well, man, like a, a lot of time these property managers, there are some good ones out there, but the, the name of the game is value, right? So they’re never gonna give you a property the care it needs. And that’s even when you’re not even talking about the hospitality space. So when you’re, when we look at our own portfolio and we acquire, we are very like, deliberate about like, how can we make a seamless experience for our guests from the moment they check in, who actually, before they check in, to how easy is it for them to find a property?
Justin:
What kind of experience are they having? Also too, like preemptively solving any issues while they’re in the stay because our business is so heavily dependent on the review system that when you can really provide that great level of service while they’re staying there, by the time they get to the review, you’re almost always gonna get a great review because they feel heard, right? And the difference between us in hospitality, like a, a true traditional hotel is, you know, we don’t need that concierge service for somebody like at a Four Seasons is greeting you, right? I mean, I still stay in Four Seasons, I love it. But at the end of the day, right, like that’s not the level that guests expect when you come into an Airbnb, but they do expect it to be easy to check in that everything looks the way it did when the pictures there’s always towels.
Justin:
You know, toilet paper’s a big one. You’d be shocked on how many times that people get like, sunk by just like not having the bare necessities, right? But you know, again, where the opportunity lies is when you’re operating like a true business in this space, the ma overwhelming majority of people within that even own short term rentals. So we kind of, you know, qualify them as like your mom and pop, like they own lesson three. They’re not terribly sophisticated, they’re not looking at it like a business. So when you come in and look at it through that prism, you’re able to be really successful, even when a lot of people are, are, are struggling or it’s, you know, quote unquote saturated market because you understand how to kind of target your, your, your guests and, and give them a great stay.
Charles:
So you have your own management company, you’re, I mean, you have properties really all over. So how does that work with, how do you manage that? Because I mean, obviously doing a lot of the hospitality portion where it’s done virtually, let’s say, you know, sending messages to people, sending codes back and forth, handling issues or passing issues back and forth, but how does the, on the ground work? So are you buying these strategically in like, in specific areas that are within miles of each other, but if they’re a little bit spread out, how does that work on the actual property management portion of it? Like, you know, someone’s toilets, networking or anything that happens in any type of rental property type of situation?
Justin:
Yeah, we, we use, we heavily rely one on technology, right? A lot of, you’d be shocked on how many things can be automated very easily or even ran by a virtual assistant, right? That really understands the business and knows what they’re doing. But to your point, we do tend to target areas one that we like, but also we wanna get economies to scale, right? But we also build strategic partners in those markets so that we have teams that are there to be able to service all of those properties, right? So, you know, generally speaking, we’re not gonna go buy a, a property just somewhere out, you know, in the middle of nowhere, right? If we’re, if we’re not looking into the future to kind of grow our portfolio there, but we can still do that and just kind of set up that little micro team there to, to service that property. So it can still be done. And I, you know, especially if you have investors or listeners that want to get into this business themselves you can really build small teams and be really opt opt opportunistic in just certain locations. It just go after where is the most ROI and just build micro teams in those areas, really anywhere in the country where it makes sense.
Charles:
Yeah. I mean, really on the ground, it’s really, I would imagine it’s cleaning crew and then some sort of handyman or some sort of person like that that’s really doing it. And with, I mean, my coach people on multifamily we’re like, you have to have like 40 or 60 units at least to have that full-time handyman. I imagine now you can have less than that because your units are more profitable. Is that correct?
Justin:
Exactly. Exactly. And, and what it boils down to is cashflow man. And, and that’s why I’m in this business, and that’s why I love it, not only from the opportunity standpoint, but when people actually see the level of cashflow that you can get in these, in this space it almost, it, it just blows people away, right? But again, it goes back to the education piece. Like, you know, this space hasn’t been around terribly long. And so it’s really just, you know, educating people to like the opportunity that exists here. When you’re operating right away,
Charles:
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Charles:
So let’s talk about like the scaling. You touched on a little bit about buying different places that you like and you know, us utilizing technology. What other strategies kind of has your team utilized for scaling your short term rental business over multiple markets at once?
Justin:
Yeah. So you know, like I mentioned before you know, the boutique hotel, I love that model. It’s small, you don’t need a huge team. It’s really more about positioning the properties than anything else, right? One of the things we’ve been able to leverage is, you know, just distribution channels, right? When you, you know, generally speaking, most people just, you know, pop their properties on Airbnb and BBO and just like say, all right, you know, wish for the best, right? But there are at least 10 that I could think of at the top of my head that you can put those you know, properties on there and be very strategic and really make sure that you’re, you’re max maximizing your occupancy and also obviously, your average daily rate, right? Another thing is, is that we’re very conscious of the area that we go into.
Justin:
It’s almost like targeting an an avatar. So what, what I mean by that is, is that every market isn’t necessarily gonna cater to your kind of vacation traveler, right? There are so many different strategies you can employ, right? So the obvious one is being more midterm and then building a portfolio around like a hospital, but a lot of people don’t know. It’s like going to your airports, right? And then actually getting contracts with an airline and having a place for their store des their pilots to sleep, right? That’s very close by. So they can get in somewhere close, go in be very familiar with the place if they’re, if it’s a hub and, and have a great place to stay, and it’s a contract and you’re contracting and a premium price, right? So we’re using these strategies to really kind of consolidate in certain areas, but another one is the development side. So we really focus in on, you know, finding great areas where we can build, you know, anywhere from 15 to to 30 town homes. And then that also gives us flexibility to exit at co because we can control costs of the build or hold it long term or sell half the portfolio. So these are the kind of strategy we’re deploying so that we can continue to grow and scale this business.
Charles:
Okay, great. Yeah. And when you say CO, that certificate of occupancy, for people that are listening that might not have done development deals before the thing I think we hear about, and obviously it’s news, it’s all, you know, gloom, but how does government intervention in certain markets around the US like change your business model? Because obviously you’re rolling with the punches, you figure out a way, and sometimes not all government intervention is bad. So it depends on what it is, but tell us about like how that’s changed your business and I mean, you’re mostly in the southeast here, we’re pretty friendly to business, so how does that change everything?
Justin:
Yeah, I, I think one of the biggest things is, is one that’s why it becomes incredibly important to really understand the market that you’re going into so that you don’t just buy a property in an area that you don’t understand, and then you get kind of like, you know, sidelined by something like that. But the reality is the overwhelming majority of that kind of, you know, fearmongering and negative news is not nearly as dramatic as most people or the news portrays it to be, right? Again, because this space is so new, a lot of municipalities, you know, states definitely nothing federal for the most part or at all don’t have anything on the books when it comes to short term rentals, right? So they’re all playing catch up for a variety of reasons, the tax incentive, right? Anytime government has the ability to tax something and make more money, they’re gonna do it.
Justin:
Sometimes it is because, you know that, you know, that neighbor that just is, is very cranky and doesn’t like seeing people come in and out regardless if they’re making noise or not. That can play into you know, local municipalities trying to implement things, but most of the times it’s just about putting, you know, kind of guidelines on the books. But you have seen these extreme cases. The New York is a perfect example of when a hotel lobby has a lot of power and they can really like, try, try to completely eliminate the business. So to get back to your point, it becomes really important to make sure that you’re, you really understand that market and you’re staying pretty plugged into what’s going on, right? Even after you buy the property, make sure that you always kind of stay one step ahead because the good thing about government and the bad thing is they’re very slow moving, right?
Justin:
So you have a lot of time generally to prepare for these things. But the best part is the flexibility of the space where you can pivot into different things. One of the really cool things that we’re trying now, especially as we’re going a little bit higher end, is you have putting your platform on, you know, peer space and then that’s something where you can host events or do photo shoots, and you’re, you’re talking about, you know, maybe this property does six, $700 a month, or excuse me, a day a DR to stay in it. But if you could charge $3,000 for three hours that could be a very successful model where you’re not violating then the, you know, whatever laws they put on the books, right? So I’m, what I love about real estate is the ability to be creative. And if you’re someone that can be creative and be a forward thinker, like this is a great space. ’cause There’s so much flexibility that even if you come across a place where they’re trying to implement laws, like there’s a way that you can pivot, you just have to figure it out.
Charles:
Yeah. And a lot of properties like HOAs and stuff like this, they’ve had this on the books ’cause I mean, maybe not Airbnbs in their, in their docks, but, you know, weekly rentals, you know, some places have been against it for a while. They have it in there and some other ones that might be open to it. So, you know, there’s a lot of regulation already inside some of these in some of these HOA agreements. But really when you’re buying single family houses, I think that’s where you’re getting more with getting into the town and really kind of what people and what the lobby’s doing there. But it’s the thing about your, say about New York City, but I mean, that’s, you, you gotta be aware of that if you’re doing business in a state or area like New York. I mean, that’s just, it’s not just SCR people that are getting hammered there. I mean there’s, we heard years and years of issues there since covid with just multifamily investors, you know what I mean? And a place that they really need apartments. So yeah, it’s it just happens in some, any type of overregulated place like that
Justin:
A hundred percent man. And, and that’s just kind of the nature of the beast, and that’s just a part of the due diligence process, right? So you just have to be informed and also kind of prepare and give yourself a couple of different exit strategies or, you know, different, you know, preemptively look at like if something does happen, how do we pivot? But you know, that that’s government and, you know, rather than sit around and complain about it, like, you know, figure it out man, just tell me what the rules are and we’ll, we’ll figure it out. That’s kind of how I operate in life in general, but definitely with my business.
Charles:
Yeah, that’s the entrepreneur mindset. So tell us about, like, I I’ve always wondered how the underwriting process works and avoiding, ’cause when I’ve heard, I wouldn’t say horror stories when I’ve heard people that have less than optimal short-term rental properties, they’re really don’t know what they’re doing and they might have one, it’s usually just one or two. I never hear someone like yourself or someone else that have many different units that are now saying that they’re having issues with some ’cause they’ve kind of figured it out. So, I mean, how do you protect yourself against buying a property or short-term rental in an oversaturated market that might have too many short-term rentals? And does that stop you from doing it? Does it make it that you have to be more competitive when you go in there? I mean, how does that work when you’re reviewing the demographics of an area?
Justin:
Yeah, we, we look at it a bunch of different ways, right? So you know, what I’ve done is I’ve leveraged the syndication model from multifamily, and that’s kind of how we operate now, right? So we will go out, identify, you know, multiple properties, could be six, could be two, it could be eight, and then package ’em together. And then we give our investors like a blended return, right? So one, we’re kind of geographically diversifying ourselves, right? So if one does struggle a little bit, right, like theoretically right from, you know, a diversification standpoint, maybe two are doing much better, right? So you’re always pretty safe there. But again, it just goes back to your kind of due diligence of making sure that you’re buying in the right locations and that you just really understand the market that you’re going into to make sure that you are one buying the right property.
Justin:
But two you know, operating the way where you’re looking at like, how do you optimize the property? How do you make sure that this property is gonna be in the top 10%? What we do now is when we target the markets that we like, you know, if it’s oversaturated, you know, quote unquote on the outside looking in, it may just be, you know, two twos are oversaturated, but you know, properties above five, you know bedrooms, maybe there’s barely any, right? Like 5%, 2%. And that’s where we see the opportunity, because then we can still go into that market that is, you know, quote unquote oversaturated. But the reality is, is that, you know, I’m not gonna go to Miami and buy a one bedroom condo because you’re like, you’re, you’re talking about massive competition. But if you go to Miami or you know, like we love Cocoa Beach up in Brevard County where we see development going in and buy a five bedroom and you can convert it to eight bedrooms, you know, there are very few properties that one have that level of space.
Justin:
And our thesis has been, you know, if you’re a, a family that’s a big family or say you want to travel with your buddy and they have kids and a wife and stuff, you know, you have two options. You can either go to your Holiday Inn and get like six, you know, six individual hotel rooms, or you can come to one of my properties and we have two kitchens, you have eight bedrooms, the kids have a place to play in the garage and stuff. So we’re effectively like really mitigating a lot of our risk, even in these markets that are quote unquote ible for saturated because we’re looking for a particular product that there isn’t actually a lot of in that area.
Charles:
Yeah, I never thought of that. That’s fantastic. ’cause Like how easy it is to, I mean, it’s, it’s not, I would imagine it’s very difficult for somebody else thinking to convert a large property like that into an Airbnb number one. So there’s not gonna be many, and no one’s gonna really build one like that. So yeah, that, that makes perfect sense. I never even thought about going into that way where you’re looking at really the unit mix of the properties that you’re competing against and figuring out where you can kind of fit yourself in there.
Justin:
Yeah, man, this is what gets me fired up because like, this is the problem, man. Like, I, I love this space. I’ve gone all in. That’s a bit of my personality, man, when I figured out this is what I wanted to do, like I went deep, right? And this is how I’ve been able to build, but it’s just people just aren’t aware, right? Like, you know, they think of obviously the negative, I think it’s human nature and all the downside, but when you start looking at the true potential and the upside, like there’s just massive opportunity in the space, and that’s just one strategy of many that you can execute. And it makes it really challenging for your mom and pop to do that, right? When you’re going after $2 million properties and in this interest rate environment can get it at a discount and can use financial tools that maybe you know, one individual doesn’t have access to it makes the barrier to entry much higher than it is for your standard, you know, two, two property in Kansas where, you know, anybody that can qualify for FHA can get into the game.
Charles:
Yeah. so what are some common mistakes you see short-term rental investors makes since you work with a lot of ’em?
Justin:
Yeah. not doing her due diligence, man, not buying in the wrong location not looking at the unit mix, not understanding the seasonality of a property. You know, when you talk about a, a lot of the negative news that came out of COVID I think you saw, you know, in markets like a, a Phoenix or a Joshua Tree, California where, you know, those are great markets and they still are, but you know, when you go in, you buy a property when the market’s going like this, you’re not renovating, you’re not adding any value to it, and then you’re underwriting the property to where you think that the average daily rate’s gonna be a thousand dollars a night because in Covid you can’t travel around, but the true average daily rate is really 500 or four 50, and your occupancy truly is, you know, 60%, 75%.
Justin:
When, you know rates and or I, I guess when the market comes back down to earth, it left a lot of people upside down. And I think, you know, this is a part of the negative news and this is what people continue to do when they don’t truly understand the due diligence process or how to underwrite it. It, and it was a big reason why I created a community for people that like, if you wanna get into the space, like I can show you how to do it the right way so you don’t get burned and you can continue to kind of like buy properties and build your wealth through real estate.
Charles:
Justin, what are some of the main factors contribute to your success over the years from, you know, beginning real estate, what you’re doing now and into the future?
Justin:
Yeah, man, just being too stupid to, to listen to anybody that that tells me that like, this isn’t a good investment or a good idea. And just being consistent, bro, like that is a part of my DNA. I have no superpowers, no skills better than the average person, man. But what I will say is I think like I really believe in having a strong mindset and I believe in discipline. I believe in consistency and I think that anyone can do those things, man. So if you stay at something long enough and you will do it long enough, like you will win. And I think that’s the piece that most people miss. People all the time say they want all these amazing things of life and stuff, but very few people are actually willing to go out and, you know, put themselves out there and do it. And I’m just one of those people that chooses to do that.
Charles:
Yeah, it’s a staying power and I don’t think many people have it today, especially in today’s kind of how we are today where everything has to be instant gratification.
Justin:
Yes, that’s very true, man. Yeah.
Charles:
So Justin, thank you so much for coming out. Tell us how our listeners can learn more about your investing passively with you your community, and also your, all your teaching courses and stuff like this for getting people that wanna be active into short-term rentals.
Justin:
Yeah, so I will leave that to you to put all the links, so I’m not gonna go through everything like that, man. But at the end of the day, like my, my program is called STR Millionaire. So you can just google that and you can find me there if you wanna learn and do it yourself. If you want to invest my company name is Lester More Capital you know, it was either the smartest thing or the dumbest thing I ever did because you won’t remember it and you probably, you definitely won’t spell it correctly. So look for me on Instagram’s probably the best way, or LinkedIn, Justin C. Mosley, and you’ll definitely find me there and, and reach out and love to chat.
Charles:
Well, thank you so much for coming on today, Justin, and I’m looking forward to connecting with you here face to face sometime in your future.
Justin:
Awesome brother. Yeah, we’ll definitely connect soon, my friend.
Charles:
Talk to you soon.
Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.
Announcer:
Nothing in this episode should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Any investment opportunities mentioned on this podcast are limited to accredited investors. Any investments will only be made with proper disclosure, subscription documentation, and are subject to all applicable laws. Please consult an appropriate tax legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of Syndication Superstar, LLC, exclusively.