GI269: Build to Rent Investing with Jim Sheils

GI269: Build to Rent Investing with Jim Sheils

Jim Sheils has done over 2,000 rehabs throughout his real estate investing career, previously focusing on bulk foreclosures. Today, Jim specializes in building rental portfolios for individual investors and institutional buyers in Florida’s high-growth markets by focusing on the Build-to-Rent niche, which provides new construction and low-density properties such as single-family homes, duplexes, and quads with property management in place.

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Transcript:

Charles:

Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast. I’M your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Jim Sheils. He has done over 2,000 rehabs throughout his real estate investing career, previously focusing on bulk foreclosures. Today, Jim specializes in building rental portfolios for individual investors and institutional buyers in Florida’s high-growth markets by focusing on the Build-to-Rent niche, which provides new construction and low-density properties such as single-family homes, duplexes, and quads with property management in place. So thank you so much for coming on today,

Jim:

Charles. Thanks for having me. Good to be here. Yeah,

Charles:

It’s great to have you on here. I love obviously you have a, a great experience background with all the different rehabs, which we would love to get into, but also the build to rent niche is something that we haven’t really touched too much on the show. But before we get into all that, can you give us a little background on yourself, both personally and professionally prior to getting involved with real estate investing? Yeah.

Jim:

I grew up in the Northeast and a very middle class, lower middle class family, always wanted to be an entrepreneur, and I got into real estate about 25 years ago. I, I liked the tangibility when I was testing all these different businesses and business ideas, kept coming back to real estate, and I saw that that stat, that seven outta 10 millionaires made their money in real estate. And now I think if you look that up, it should up to eight out of 10. And so I liked that tangibility and I bought my first property a fixerupper 25 years ago, which is crazy to hear and have gone on to evolve it into different businesses. Today, I, I really appreciate real estate. What it’s done for me, for my investors, it’s bought back my time. And one of my goals, Charles, is to have a legendary family life. And, you know, with my wife and five children, that was important to me. I didn’t have financial means growing up as a kid, and I wanted to be able to do things that we enjoyed of impact, and real estate’s allowed me to do that.

Charles:

Yeah, I would love to get in later on we can touch base on that because I’d love to get in more information on what you and your wife have done over the years and a book you wrote about that. But I think one of the first stats that jumped out to me when I was reading about you was the over 2000 pop properties you’ve rehabbed. Can you explain a little bit about how you’re able to do that? I mean, how did you source the properties and kind of how your company was structured? Because I mean, it’s a completely different beast when you’re getting into that many properties.

Jim:

Yeah, bulk, bulk rehabs is is not for the faint hearted. But I, I wanna tell you this, Charles, this is really important. Of all those rehabs, I did two of them myself, two, and I was so terrible at them personally that my contractor friend who helped us on the first one was just like, oh man, dude, you are not good at this <laugh>. And so I give that reason for, for you listening out there and says, well, I’m not, you know, the best mechanically or fixer upper I’m not. But I understood the process, I understood the numbers, I understood how to oversee it. And I think that actually was to my advantage because sometimes we get too wrapped up in the details. People say to me, oh, I’m very good at fixing things, and that can be great, but sometimes if you’re just too much in, then you can’t step back and you can’t scale.

Jim:

And I was able to understand the process and bring in good people. And also I, my main thing was finding the deals, right? You always gotta be able to find the deal, finance the deal, and manage the deal, whether it’s fixing it up and selling it, fixing it up and renting it. And those are the three pieces. And finding the deal, Charles, that’s where I excelled. And I’ve just been always old fashioned using relationships. I build relationships, whether I was in California at the beginning of my career, down to Florida with some of the best REO agents in the area. That means agents that work for bank foreclosures. So these agents would get a bulk of properties at good pricing that needed work. I knew how to work with them, I knew how to please them. They liked people who were easy to work with, could close fast.

Jim:

I always paid both sides of the commission to them. I never tried to take a commission. That was a choice I always made. And, and, and I did volume. And so I would build these relationships and that’s how we were able to scale. And with some wholesalers as well that offered, you know, really fair deals and they had their own relationships. So I, I believe in the golden goose concept, you know? Right. A golden goose will lay you many eggs instead of just trying to find one egg, try to find the golden goose. And that’s how I built the, the for foreclosure renovation business, really with the finding the golden geese.

Charles:

How did you go about obviously you had the sourcing down. How did you go about the other parts of it? Did you have a partner that you worked with or were you also putting them?

Jim:

I had a partner for years that worked with it and oversaw the rehabs. Working in rehabs. You, you, that is, that is one of the tougher parts about being in the rehab business opposed to building new construction, building new construction, you get to a higher scale where you can work with hire more developed subcontractors and, and building companies to support you. When you’re working normally in the rehab, you’re either running your own crew or hiring smaller crews, and that can be nice and it can be great people to be with, but it can also be all over the board. So you gotta make sure every project’s going on time in budget and quality work. And those three things, once I got clear on those, man, I wish I knew that, you know, 25, even 20 years ago, you know, holding to those three things is not always easy.

Jim:

Emotions get in the way. But when you can separate emotions and personality saying, Hey, our relationship is on time in budget, quality work, and I’ll always pay you and pay you on time. You gotta hold to those three things. So there was a partner I had that was managing that, or sometimes a construction manager. And that’s an important part because if you’re not getting the right, and, but that’s, that’s where I encourage people to go deep into one market. If you’re rehabbing, right? We had our go-to AC guy, our go-to roofer, our go-to plumber. And once you get those and you’re doing volume again, volume has its privilege. You know, if you’re trying to rehab in seven different markets starting out, man, you’re gonna, you’re gonna die on the vine quick, or at least the odds are. So, so that’s how we kind of built that side of the business. But make no mistake doing a bulk of those, it can be very demanding.

Charles:

Yeah. It’s also, it’s very similar with like small rental properties. I started off with buying small multi-families and stuff, and we bought ’em like strategically close to each other. And like you said, it’s like one H you know, HVAC guy, one this one that, and it was your go-to the more units you did, the better your relationship was. Right. And in, in pricing got a little bit more competitive, you know what I mean? Volume

Jim:

Has privilege. Volume has

Charles:

Privilege. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So in 2022, you merge your company with Southern Impression Homes to better serve the build to rent niche. Can you break down what the build to rent niche is the model for our audience that maybe haven’t heard of it before, and kind of what your role in the process are and what happens at the end? Who are the end? What’s the exit strategy for that at the end of investors?

Jim:

Yeah, so, so turnkey real estate, the term really became popular right at the end of oh eight. That’s when, I mean, the bottom fell outta the real estate market. The best buying time ever in the last a hundred years was basically beginning of 2009. And so when we were doing a lot of fixer uppers that that did well those first few years but by about 2015 Charles, the deals weren’t there anymore, right? There was a lot of people jumping into the market at this point over bidding on fixer uppers. And my now building partner said, why don’t we start to build our own properties instead of, you know, just find old fixer uppers. And so we did that for a number of years. And then in 2022 all I was doing at first, it was a joint venture for years. And I said, we are basically working together all the time.

Jim:

I said, why don’t I just merge my company, become a partner, you know, and join forces? And that allowed me to focus on what I’m best at. The Golden Geese, like I just said, my relationships, sales training, and he handles all the operations and management. But it all of evolved because turnkey real estate, right? Guys like us would find foreclosures, fix ’em up and rent ’em out. And sometimes we’d keep, other times investors would, would buy ’em off of us. And even the hedge funds were working in this. But what the hedge funds learned, these guys with bigger analysts analyzing departments than us and more money, they found that getting old homes, rehab wasn’t that easy. And and so they started to change their model right around the time we started to dabble in new construction. They’re like, heck, we’re just gonna build new so we don’t have to deal with all of these older problems and surprises.

Jim:

And so we decided, you know, a lot of our clients who bought old bulk foreclosures with us fixed up. They did well, but I’m sorry, with older houses, there’s always more maintenance from repairs, more turnover. You’re not necessarily in the better neighborhoods. With new construction, we’ve been able to do better by all standards for our clients, for growth, for longer tenancy, for less maintenance and repairs. And that’s what the build to rent niche is about. It’s kind of replaced the old model of getting turnkey real estate. You know, a house that’s been turned around and renovated from the fifties, more of a house that’s built new today, has better warranties, normally built in a better area to a better standard. And that, that puts you on such a different trajectory. Yes, you’re gonna sacrifice some cashflow upfront compared to what the performer will say in an old house, but now that we’ve run it against a few thousand old ones and a few thousand new ones, there’s no comparison. The new construction is, is easier, more effective. And the best thing is, what I’ve found, Charles, is you don’t have to own as many. I own 80% less properties than I used to, but I have more equity and more cash flow than I ever have. And so what does that tell you? Yeah,

Charles:

It’s one thing I’ve also found too with like a lot of those turnkey, when I’ve heard from people, I’ve never done one myself in the sense of buying a turnkey, but when I’ve heard it, it’s like buying a house that’s been flipped, and sometimes it’s not a hundred percent done correctly. You know what I mean? So it’s something where they put something on here, but like maybe the bones haven’t been changed a bit, right? Where it needs to be. So they’re just like, it’s all cosmetic and it leaves a new owner, this looks great, but I know behind the wall there’s something that needs to be updated or there’s other prop problems that are kind of brewing. So that’s something obviously you take completely outta the equation when you’re building ’em yourself.

Jim:

Yep. New construction, you can give longer warranties and everything’s gonna be new. 1955 house. If you’re outta area and you don’t know how’s the sewer main, are the trestles under the roof? Did they do a new roof? You know, the plumbings for old galvanized from the day was built. You know, these things, the, the, the newer investor doesn’t know to ask. And, and again, we used to do new roof, new heating, cooling upgrade, AC kitchens, baths. We did it all. We were one of the rare ones. But again, that’s one of the reasons why we got priced out of the market early. ’cause We wouldn’t cut corners and almost got forced into building new construction. That’s, that’s one of the things that you have to look for on that are people doing full rehabs? They can be very lucrative, but also if you don’t know what to look for, then like you said, something could look good, but you’re not completely, you know, in a good position.

Charles:

Yeah. And then you, that’s when you have a big like the HVAC system comes up two days, two years later. Exactly. And something like that kills your cash flow for years to come. You obviously are really well-rounded in real estate investing. You’ve been all different asset classes within it. Why would you suggest to investors to consider Build to Rent versus let’s say other real estate asset classes out there? I mean, what has been your experience, obviously you just explained to it from going from renovating a house that might have been foreclosed that’s 50, 60 years old. But what about the other asset classes and maybe people that have been successful with Build to rent with you and why they kind of made that made that choice?

Jim:

Yeah, so, you know, and there’s, there are so many real estate niches, and so I just, I encourage you to work in maybe one or two because it can be pretty confusing if you try to go into too many. I think you know, funds and syndications can be great until they’re not, you know, you wanna do your homework on them. We’ve all seen that some funds and syndications haven’t gone well. The nice thing about Bill Durant, like with our clients is the tangibility and the ownership, they own it. They’re not part of something. Like if a fund goes wrong and has to be unraveled, that can be a difficult situation. Now, with that said, I invest in funds and syndications, but you gotta invest in the right ones. But owning your own property is one of the most basic and proven ways to, to make money as long as it’s in a good area.

Jim:

Well-Managed good condition, right? I mean, the history shows that, like I told you, eight outta 10 millionaire now have made their money that way. And so I believe that the reason Bill dur rent is so lucrative is because it’s staying under that, that commercial. And again, I have friends that made a lot of money in commercial, I’ve done some commercial, but the advantage that we have right now with turnkey new construction in our little realm is we have residential financing. The residential financing, we do our own in-house financing now that right now we’re locking our people in on single families duplexes and quads as low as four point a quarter, four point a quarter percent. You know, right now if they went to their own bank, they’d probably get quoted 7%. And that makes the difference between cash flow today or negative cash flow.

Jim:

And so that residential realm has longer financing, better financing terms right now. And also it’s a little safer for a, a smaller investor to get into. And with that said, we’ve worked with some of the largest hedge funds in the world now that we’ve built whole neighborhoods or done packages of houses for, they’re seeing that same thing too for a long time. They’re going, no, no, no, no, no, we don’t wanna deal with that. But really the single family home, that smaller residential properties have had some of the most steady growth in the good times and, and stability in the bad times compared to other stuff that can go really off the boards that are, you know, other niches. Again, I, I invest in these, but manufacturing you know, commercial, there, there can be office space. Right now, the, the, the simple residential always seems to have a need and that’s why we like it. And we also stick to workforce housing. We’re not doing fancy houses, Charles, you know, our homes are very, you know, basic but nice right around the median price below the median. And we provide that more affordable rent and housing. Yeah,

Charles:

That, that really keeps your vacancies very low.

Charles:

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Charles:

One thing you mentioned about the financing, which I wasn’t even thinking about, is obviously if someone’s getting into this and they’re possibly getting into this while all already having a full-time job that makes the financing on a one to four unit rental property so much easier and they can leverage that income versus if you go start going five plus units, you’re now in a commercial realm and now, and it’s a whole different ball game. You know what I mean? So

Jim:

Yes, very different. Yeah, I, I tell people, that’s why I said before you quit your day day job, you should be using your serviceability. And that’s, if I could go back, Charles, I had a good sales job and I’m quitting, I’m going into real estate full time. Well that was the silliest thing ever. I could have qualified for a good seven or eight loans before I quit, but then afterwards I didn’t. So for a lot of our clients, you know, we have doctors, people that run their own businesses, lawyers guys doing well in technology. I say, stay where you’re at. Use your serviceability. We’ll get you a good five to 10 properties that, you know, can be a solid soldier of secondary income for you. And they don’t have to go anywhere. And that’s the power of serviceability. If you have a good job or a business that shows good income, you can qualify for that type of financing.

Charles:

I was reading that you I think it was a couple years back, you did $182 million in sales in one year. Can you kind of go into a little bit about what your blueprint and strategy was to be able to take your build to rent business to that size?

Jim:

Yeah, we, we started in one market, got it going well, and then we branched the same model into other markets. So there’s no way Charles, we could have stayed in just Jacksonville, Florida to do that. We had to branch in other markets. If we had stayed in Jacksonville, that would’ve pressured us to start building in areas that I don’t like to invest. I, I like to be able to walk down the street at Friday, Friday, eight o’clock at night without any concerns. And I can say that I do that at any of our properties. And so to be able to do that and find those fundamentals for the volume we wanted to do, we had to pick up and move our team into other markets. You know, we’re in 12 different markets in Florida now and going into Texas this year. And that was kind of the secret, get it ain going in Jacksonville, Florida where we had bought rehabs for many, many years, still building near these types of neighborhoods, perfected it there or not perfected.

Jim:

We’re always moving towards perfection, but got it going there well enough where we could pick it up and replicate it. That was kind of the secret. And, and again, we work with a lot of, you know, successful partners. Some of the largest podcasters in the world on whether it’s financial success or real estate have been long-term sales partners with us and their, their audience is looking for what we do. So it’s a very good blends where we can help them, you know, cut some of the learning curve off that I had and was very painful that they don’t have to go through. And so that’s, that’s been a big help to, to building such a pipeline of sales as well.

Charles:

What are some of the common mistakes you say you probably have seen real estate investors make over the last 20, 25 years?

Jim:

One of the biggest ones, Charles, that I’ve learned, and you alluded to it before, is, is this owning of a ton of properties. So when I first went into those first real estate courses, a hundred house club, that’s all everyone talked about. Once you own a hundred houses life, I mean, you are, you know, sitting in the emperor’s chair. That’s, that’s it. Well, I like hit double that and I forgot to look at the quality, the performance. You’re just mounting up houses in not good condition and not great areas that are very management intense with lots of turnovers, more maintenance than you could imagine, not getting the rents that you thought and, and all that starts to add up. And so the biggest mistake is, is getting into that race of too many, and I always say now own less of better quality.

Jim:

That’s my biggest thing. If my high school friend comes to me, a a a relative, what would you do differently? I’d say get in own less of better quality. You’re gonna perform in the good times, you’re gonna be safer in the bad times, you’re gonna have less headaches. So that’s one of the biggest mistakes, going into really tough not so great properties and thinking that that’s gonna get ’em better ’cause they get wrapped up on this little bit of higher cash flow that that just doesn’t normally play out. Another thing is too, when people get into real estate investing, I’m sure you saw this, one of my mentors used to say, everyone wants to build the Taj Mahal before they own a duplex. And and people have even joked, oh, you’ve done thousands of these now why don’t, why haven’t you gone into big hotels or huge apartment complexes?

Jim:

And I said, man, I’m just starting to get good at this. And and, and so, you know, that was something good. Mentors over me taught me that, you know, you, you, you wanna, you want it to get where real estate investing becomes boring, right? It’s just cranking out. If you, if you want excitement, you know, climb a mountain, jump out of an airplane. Money making, especially in a real estate niche, should be boring. ’cause Once it’s boring, you know what you’re doing. You can see things before they happen. You’re on the inside track. It’s when people are always jumping from niche to niche to niche every four to six months, they never become an expert. They never leave the freshman class and get to the senior class where, you know, you have better privilege and better results. So those are some of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen. Yeah,

Charles:

That’s a lot. Great advice. My dad started in like larger de class properties back in the eighties and early nineties. And I remember being just a kid watching him and he would always tell people when he’d like go to through the contract. He’s like, it’s not the Taj Mahal. You’d have to always like tell every contractor that. And he went the other way. He started with those and went into like three families. They were very prevalent where we are, where we were from, from the northeast. And he went into that ’cause they’re better neighborhoods, less management intensive, people stayed longer multi-year leases. It was that you weren’t negotiating every time collecting rent. These things that people, war stories, I guess you would say that people in that type of lower class. So I totally understand what you’re saying. And those are some those are some examples that really resonated, which what I saw face. Yeah. But so over these years, as we’re kind of getting a little bit more into kind of how this has changed your personal life too. I mean, how has the relationship with money changed over the years? You said how you changed it, where better properties, less time intensive more cashflow, less headaches. How, how else has money kind of changed just your relationship with it over the years?

Jim:

You know, I was, I was talking to a friend the other day who happens to be a therapist and he works with a lot of very big entrepreneurs and we both agreed of something. We’re both poor kids just trying to be a little less poor <laugh>. And so I guess I’ve gotten better at it. You know, one of the fears of when, like, I went through and my parents went broken fifth grade, you don’t forget stuff like that. And so I’ve really had to realign my relationship with money and not always be a fair fear of losing it, but more have a confidence in myself of it can come and it can go and I can make it back. You know, the old would you rather keep your money or your relationships and, and your, your skillset, you know, now that you have that you can come back.

Jim:

So I think with me it’s, it’s less of a, of a fear-based thing that I need to do it. And it’s more an excitement and that excitement for me. It’s, well, it allows me to do the things I want to do and support the causes I care about and be with the people I want. So I, I really am starting to see it more as a vehicle. And, and that’s good for at the beginning, Charles honestly was an insurmountable mountain, you know what I mean? I, I I I had such drive, but I think I was always scared. And, and now I’m starting to have more courage, but also when I get more courage, which is weird, that might sound, oh, he is going to these crazy deals, I’m probably more conservative. So I don’t know if that makes any sense. But those are some of the, the relationship things that have happened.

Charles:

You and your wife wrote the passive income playbook. Can you discuss its premise and also the 18 summers concept that you allude to?

Jim:

Yeah, so we, we wrote a book about 10 years ago that we never expected to take off, called the Family Board meeting. It’s now a, a Wall Street Journal number one bestseller, which we’re very proud of. And it’s about helping entrepreneurs make sure they’re successful at home, not just successful in their business. And it got an underground following. We never thought it would happen. We’re very proud of it, but people would talk about, okay, you’ve developed this family life, which seems extraordinary, but how how’d you fund it? And I said, well, it wasn’t, it wasn’t book sales, I can tell you that it’s, it’s it’s real estate and real estate investing. They said, well, can you talk about your journey? So that’s what we shared in the Passive Income Playbook, our 25 year journey, you know, into real estate, how everything we’ve talked about on here, how we started in fixer uppers in tougher neighborhoods and learned lessons, survived oh eight, found new niches, went into bulk foreclosures, found that not to work, and really hit our stride in wealth creation 10 years ago for not only ourselves, but our clients with Bill Durant, with new construction turnkeys.

Jim:

And so that’s what it’s about. And we also throw in a a bit of family. There’s so many people that they want that better family life. And again, when I say legendary family life, Charles, there’s no ego in that. That just means all the things I couldn’t do as a kid, I wanna be able to do with my own family. And that’s pretty much what it means to me. So we share some of the concepts and strategies I’ve learned from our family and other mentors where we can not only build a great real estate business, but enjoy our family life along the way. That’s what 18 summers is about. The statistic that the average person will spend almost 85% of the quality time they ever have with their child by the end of the 18th summer. And so you wanna make the time, you don’t want to take that terrible advice I got when I first started. Put your head down for 10 years, get back to your family life. They’ll understand. That’s terrible advice. You gotta smell the roses along the way with them. And that’s what we talk about in the book. How do you build your real estate portfolio and this side of the business while also enjoying the journey with your family.

Charles:

That’s a, that’s a lot of great information. I was looking over it and you, you, it is a, was it a Wall Street Journal bestseller? Is that what it

Jim:

Was? The family board meeting was a Wall Street Journal bestseller. And and the Passive Income playbook was Amazon and USA today.

Charles:

Oh, fantastic. So as we wrap up here what are the main factors maybe contributing to your success over the years? What would you allude in maybe your personal and professional life?

Jim:

I’ve, I’ve gotten really honest about taking inventory. Okay, what am I good at? What am I not good at? What is making me the money? What is not making me the money? And do I, should I be working this person worth this person? Or should I not be working with this person? You know, taking inventory is key, you know, what am I really stinky at? What do I suck at? I can’t be doing that anymore and pretending that I’m good at. And so I’ve, I’ve tried to really get clear on my genius and where I can add the most value and try to delegate the rest. And that’s been really important to me. And also sticking to a niche and simple plan. There’s so many things, especially when you start getting into events out there that, wow, this guy’s doing this, and wow, that seems incredible. You, you gotta, you, you can always fine tune a little bit. You stick to your own plan. And the more I’ve done that and kept my recipes simple for the things I work in, the things I invest in where I spend my time, and who with it’s, it seemed to, to, to move further and further in the right direction. Charles,

Charles:

That’s a lot of great information. So Jim, how can our listeners learn more about you and your business?

Jim:

Yeah, if you wanna go to jj playbook.com, that’s a great starting spot. You can download the first three chapters of our bestselling book there, learn about our real estate journey and also our build to rent business. If you wanna see how it works, what we do, the principles that we follow, that’s a great starting point to learn more about us.

Charles:

Well, thank you so much for coming on today, Jim. We’ll put all those links into the show notes and I’m looking forward to connecting with you here in the near future.

Jim:

Thanks for having me, Charles. Good being here.

Charles:

Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

Announcer:

Nothing in this episode should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Any investment opportunities mentioned on this podcast are limited to accredited investors. Any investments will only be made with proper disclosure, subscription documentation, and are subject to all applicable laws. Please consult an appropriate tax legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of Syndication Superstar, LLC, exclusively.

Links and Contact Information Mentioned In The Episode:

About Jim Sheils

Jim is a partner at Southern Impression Homes, which specializes in building rental portfolios for individual investors and institutional buyers in Florida’s high-growth markets. With a strong focus on the Build-to-Rent niche, Southern Impression Homes provides new construction, low-density properties such as single-family homes, duplexes, and quads with property management in place. Jim’s experience in real estate investment extends beyond his partnership with Southern Impression Homes. He has done over 2,000 rehabs and formerly owned Jax Wealth Investments, which focused on bulk foreclosures. After a successful joint venture partnership with Southern Impression Homes, the two companies merged in 2022 to better serve their growing client base in the Build to Rent niche.

In addition to his thriving career in real estate, Jim is a respected figure in family education. As the co-founder and owner of 18 Summers, he offers keynotes, workshops, and retreats to entrepreneurs, professionals, and family-focused companies seeking to balance their business success with strong family relationships. Jim and his wife Jamie are the bestselling authors of “The Family Board Meeting” on Amazon. Their “Board Meeting” strategy, “Date Night with A Question” program, and other straightforward frameworks have benefited numerous business leaders worldwide in rebuilding and strengthening their family connections.

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