GI270: Investing in Apartment Complexes with Jered Sturm

Jered Sturm is a multifamily investor with over 17 years in the industry. He started as an apartment maintenance technician and became a multifamily owner/operator and syndicator specializing in the Cincinnati market. His firm is vertically integrated, with over $150 million in assets under management.

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Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Jered Sturm. He is a multifamily investor with over 17 years in the industry. He started as an apartment maintenance technician and became a multifamily owner/operator and syndicator specializing in the Cincinnati market. His firm is vertically integrated, with over $150 million in assets under management. So thank you so much for coming on the show today, Jared.

Jered:
Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. And I feel fortunate to have the platform to share a little bit more about my story, so thank you.

Charles:
Yeah, you have a great, interesting story. You’ve been in here for almost two decades. And I’d love to kinda break down exactly how that journey was for you. But before we get going, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, both personally and professionally, prior to actually becoming a real estate investor?

Jered:
Okay. Well, so I got started pretty young. So if you’re going back, prior to being a real estate investor, I was in high school. So I happened to close my first investment property the day of high school graduation. But prior to that, I, I was a maintenance technician for another local landlord in our market, which is Cincinnati, Ohio. So I did that for about two years. In my senior year of high school, we had a program where I could work full-time, so 40 hours a week, which allowed me to be a a maintenance tech. And I was the guy, you know, changing the toilets, painting the walls, and hanging the blinds, which living at home with mom and dad, putting all that money away allowed me to then buy with my brother, a six bedroom house where we lived in two of ’em and rented out the other four. And that kicked off our investment career as we then also started a construction company, which fast forward, you know, 17 years later puts us at today.

Charles:
So why did you choose real estate as kind of your investment vehicle and why get involved with that local landlord?

Jered:
So I was not a great academic student. So call me a c maybe d student on the report cards. But I was really good in wood shop, so I was fortunate. Our high school had a wood shop, so I was very good with my hands, natural aptitude for the trades. And so when something is broken, it makes a lot of sense to me on how to fix it. And so I thought, how can I use that skillset and stumbled into the maintenance tech field, which really that, that grew organically, right? I was a maintenance tech for someone else, but then friends and family would ask, can you fix this? Can you fix that? And that quickly evolved into, can you redo my bathroom? Can you redo my kitchen? And you know, after high school myself and my brother were doing higher end kitchens and bathrooms, even additions on homeowners homes and earning, you know, significant profits from that.

Jered:
‘Cause We were the ones doing all the work. We were not subbing that out. And we just learned along the way. It was, again, natural for us. And YouTube was there to support and a couple mistakes that we learned from. But at the end of the day, we were, you know, turn doing kitchens and bathrooms where profits might be equivalent to what it would be to go out and buy a house during that time, like a small, you know, rental house. ’cause This is again, 2000 8, 9, 10. So pricing was very attractive, and there’s a lot of inventory of foreclosures on the market. So I think what got me into real estate is that I never really got on the corporate America path because I wasn’t a good student. And I think the academic system is kind of built to, to push that path. And I just never was there. So I had to find an al I was driven, I was smart, but I had to find an alternative. And I had this natural aptitude in the trades and said, how can I use this to my advantage? And came across real estate as a, as a opportunity to deploy that.

Charles:
Yeah, that’s fantastic that you had that opportunity to use as credits, but also that you were able to find that local landlord, I mean, what a what an education, you know what I mean? That you were able to to you discover and figure out so you could kinda really set the course for your, for your for your life and for your your business. One. one of the things is that you know, when you were, when you were moving from single family or going into larger properties, kinda can you tell us a little bit about like maybe your first couple properties and how that transition was between going just from single family, even if it was into small multifamily and then into larger properties? I mean, when you went bigger. I mean, what, what, what kind of allow, what, what ha what did that look like? And I mean, what did you have to change yourself during that process?

Jered:
Yeah, I guess to answer that, I’ll give you a little bit more on my story. So the, the first eight years of myself and my brother’s investment career was without any outside investors. So what we were doing was buying distressed assets, forcing appreciation, stripping the equity, and then rolling into the next one. And we did that for eight years, and a lot of sweat equity went into those to force that appreciation. And so the first two years, it took us two years to get eight single family houses, but again, this is 2000 8, 9, 10, so no one was lending money. The banks were basically shut down and especially to an 18 and 20-year-old without W2 jobs. So those first eight had to be all cash acquisition, all cash renovation. And then around year two or three, we found a, a local lender that did give us a blanket cash out, which would then we then redeployed those funds into the, into more properties.

Jered:
Those properties would be your small Maltese like duplexes, quads, things like that. And then somewhere around year six, we bought you know, multimillion dollar 42 unit apartment community. And that was all with our own funds just again, through that snowball effect of stripping the equity and redeploying. And we really enjoyed the efficiencies from the renovation standpoint, but also just the operational side of like the, the economies of scale of a larger community. Even though 42 isn’t huge, we picked up a lot on this is a better way to operate than scattered site and single families. And so we learned how to do that with our own capital. And then around year eight made the decision to go into the syndication model, which helped to propel us into the even larger assets. And you know, today we’re at about 1400 units. That portfolio is made up purely of syndicated deals. So we did sell off all of our smaller stuff around 2020. But yeah, there was a couple tipping points there where we methodically grew and said, let’s prove this out with our own capital and then use partner with passive investors to then further the, the business model we’ve proven

Charles:
Out. Yeah, that’s it. It’s really like the proof of concept yourself and then bringing an outside capital. So when you start raising money for real estate, I mean, it, it adds another like really important element to your, to the process, to the business. I mean, how are you effectively able to, obviously you have this track record over many years you have a technician background. How are you able to effectively raise money to buy properties? I mean, when you’re speaking to investors was it really just a track record? Was I mean, was it your background yourself, your partner’s background?

Jered:
Yeah, so it’s a good question. I, today there are three partners in our company, SNS Capital Group. And so somewhere around that eight year mark we brought in a third partner. His name is Coleman. So he has a little bit different background than us. Now I will say like, you know, the, it, the three partners are myself, my brother, and then Coleman. You know, I have a, I have a business degree in sales and marketing. My brother has a business degree in real estate economics. But who we are is more of that like boots on the ground, blue collar operational side. Coleman’s background’s a little bit different. So he has his master’s degree in accounting, he’s a CPA, he worked at big four accounting firms doing auditing, and then ultimately landed at a multi-billion dollar real estate firm where he did investor reporting.

Jered:
And so having that institutional background and skillset, complimenting our boots on the ground operational control is, in my very biased opinion, you know, the best of both worlds. And so I think when you think of real estate syndications and passive investors, passive investors should be asking, what skillset is my partner, the general partner bringing to the table? And a lot of times what they want is that operational control and the effectiveness to produce consistent cash flow or force appreciation, usually both, and then report clearly and consistently. And so we have the skill sets on our, you know, partnership to be able to do all of those things. Oh

Charles:
Yeah, that, that makes perfect sense. It’s always good to have kind of both sides both partners all the partners are really complimenting each other towards your kind of collective goal of adding value to the property for you and your investors. You talked about the 1400 units you have now. Can you give us like a current overview kind of what your company is now what type of properties that you’re really focusing on and your strategy with them? Yeah,

Jered:
So it’s 1400 units over 19 communities. And so we, right now where we’re finding potential to force appreciation is kind of in that mid-sized asset, right? Our largest being 180 units, smallest being around 70, right? And so that’s our current portfolio is all in Cincinnati, Ohio. We see our, our core competency and our competitive advantage is operations. The further you get away from home base, the more you lose that competitive advantage. And so we’re only in one market, and it’s the market we know really well and grew up in and built our business in. The, the CBA class is always subjective. And so I think a better way to, to answer the asset type, we have all multifamily. Our average rental rate is about $1,200, I think it’s 1250 now, and the average in Cincinnati is about 1200 as well. So we’re kind of that middle of the road housing. So you might, some people might call that c some people might call that B, but mostly just garden style multifamily kind of built in average would be like 1980s.

Charles:
Interesting. So normally, like on the show here, we talk about, you know, process appeal, getting to closing a deal, but one thing that we don’t talk too much about that you have experience with, obviously with boots on the ground being like really your specialty. Can you tell us a little bit about after purchasing a property, taking over the takeover process and the switch from the old management with the previous owner and going into new management and kind of how that process works, because it can be pretty bumpy even if you’re just changing management companies and the ownership hasn’t changed, but how do you do that where to make it as efficient and smooth as possible and really kind of not upset the tenant base as much, which you’re trying to just kind of like move over? Right.

Jered:
Yeah, I think, you know, when I say our core competency is operations, that means we’re very good at those types of things, right? And so our vertical integration is we have about 50 employees now that’s both on the property management and our construction arm of our company. So using our background, our apartment renovations and the, you know, $15,000 interior upgrades are being done by W2 employees of our company, we’re not subbing that out. So not only are we hiring our own management company, a lot of the other vendor things that get hired out by other companies, we have brought that in-house. So we can have control over that. And so when we’re buying assets, typically we’re buying something that has distress, and that distress usually comes in the combination of proper inefficient property management and the need for construction or renovations. And so our business plan is to always improve those.

Jered:
And what we’ve done really good is balancing the you know, balancing vacancy with the moving part of stabilizing an asset and repositioning an asset and taking it over. And so having all of it in house allows us to move re very quickly. So something we do really well is you know, hold, we, we hold occupancy above 95% while repositioning assets. And all of that comes down to is good customer service to the residents, but also extremely efficient turnovers. So we’re going to turn these units, but vacancy is a combination of how many units did you turn and how fast did you turn them? And so we’ve, we’ve focused for many years on how do we get very efficient at doing the turnovers and our background in construction and our vertical integration really helps with that. And so those $15,000 on average apartment renovations, we average three and a half days to do those across our whole portfolio. And so balancing that, having it all in-house allows the other departments like leasing to have confidence in the date that we put in the schedule so they can pre-lease, right? And so across our 1400 units I believe it was in May we were at 99% occupancy. And that’s not due to complacency of pushing rents. You know, we we’re aggressively pushing rents in our market right now. And despite that, we’ve done a very good job of holding our occupancy high because of how efficient we are at moving through that turnover process.

Charles:
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Charles:
What have you, other than having, there must be great communication between both your construction and between project managers and between your leasing agent, stuff like this. Have you, what have you integrated into your business maybe that’s assisted with that and made it more streamlined? I think

Jered:
It’s control level, all of those. So I’d say that the normal is that you know, a property management company is either, either the owner has its own property management company, but when it comes time for, let’s say a turnover, since we’re on this example, they’re hiring a painter, they’re hiring a separate carpet company, they’re hiring all these tradesmen, somebody doesn’t show up or doesn’t do the job correctly, which then disrupts the schedule. And over time what happens is the leasing team loses faith in that date. And so then they, they start building in a buffer to try to give some room for these mistakes to happen. And since we have control, like even we have a team of full-time cleaners, right? We have six full-time cleaners that just clean our apartments and clean the common areas because we don’t want that to get missed in our schedule.

Jered:
So I’ll give you a specific, more specific way to answer this is like if everybody monitors vacancy, right? But what we do is we break vacancy out into the components of how we can hold each department or each responsibility accountable within our property management company. So vacancy obviously is from the time the resident moves out to the time the next resident moves in, but you have to break that out into our project managers are responsible from the time the resident moves out to the time the construction starts, and then our, what we call our turnover team, which would be like our tradesmen, their team of fours go into these apartments and renovate. The, the second component of vacancy would be from the time the construction starts to the time the construction finishes. And so for us, that’s three and a half days. And then the final component is time the construction finishes to the time the next resident moves in.

Jered:
That’s our leasing team. And so why we’re so good at this is because at that first step, you know, resident gives notice. So they give us a notice that 30 days from now they’re moving out, the project manager is inputting into our schedule a date, call it 30 days, 35 days into the future, right? Then our leasing team is beginning to lease that unit for that future date, and we structure our commission based off of a daily rent amount. And so they get bigger commission the closer they get that lease start date to the construction end date. And so it’s the confidence in the, in the people that work at our company to execute on those dates and line everything up. And because we have control of all those components and we’re not outsourcing it, our team does have that confidence and does execute on it, and it, it allows us to continuously line all of that up.

Charles:
Yeah. And fine tuning the turnover is such a great way of boosting the NOI without raising any rents. It’s just, if you can put together, like you said, you have a very systemized process. And it was one of the questions I was gonna ask you about kind of what you would say for the pros and cons of construction in house. And obviously we know the pros because you’re able to plug everybody in and you’re gonna have more kind of, let’s say, the ability of making sure that people are there, which is one of the biggest things of dealing with, let’s say contractors in general. They’re there on the schedule that they said they were, but it’s one of those things that you haven’t raised anybody’s rent. You’re literally just kind of making it more efficient and all the pieces work together and you can add to the NOI, because usually with most places, I mean, it’s weeks, you know what I mean? It’s weeks between a person moving out to when it starts to, when it’s rented to actually someone in there, you know, paying rent. You know what I mean? And it’s that’s great that you guys have really fine tuned that, that, I mean, that must, that’s why your economic vac or occupancy can be so high.

Jered:
Yeah. And I, I think we are also pushing rents. So like, you know boosting the NOI can come either through expense reduction or income increase, and we, we do both, right? But there, in my opinion, there is no larger account that has a trickle down effect in the income statement than vacancy, right? Like you think about if vacancy goes up, what other accounts get hit? There’s a ton of ’em, right? And so for me that’s a, a major focus is, is being efficient in that one account and, and Ben benefiting on all of the positive ripples that it creates. But as you said before, you know, raising capital is like a whole nother arm of your business. Well, construction is like a whole nother arm of our business as well. It happens to be where we kind of started, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a whole nother business.

Jered:
So it’s not easy to add on. It’s something that we started with. But there’s a reason why a lot of groups don’t do it is ’cause it’s a whole, it’s a whole separate company basically. But yes, we have dialed it in over 17 years of how to be extremely efficient. And over our 19 communities, they’re pretty consistent, right? So we we’re not buying a plus high rise and then going and buying c class garden style, we’re doing the same finishes over and over, which also creates efficiency to the point at which I’ll give you an example of like how dialed in we have gotten. This is like our materials will show up for our turnover teams, our tradesmen on pallets the day that they show up. So we don’t have ’em go get materials, it’s all delivered. And at one point, you know, my, my business partner, my brother who’s our COO is monitoring this process, this was many years ago.

Jered:
He goes to one of the apartments, he’s looking around at the construction process, and he is like, all right, there’s a couple Gatorades in a Red Bull on the counter and on top of the fridge. And he’s like, asks the guys, like, where do you, where do you go? Where do you get those? Oh, we just drive up to the gas station at the corner. So then since then, what we’ve done is every material order on the top of that pallet has a pack of Gatorade, pack of Red Bull, right? Because the cost of the Red Bull, the cost of Gatorade is far less than the labor cost for when the guy who has the correct tool in his truck drives up to the gas station and everybody else is waiting on him. So small little nuance tweaks like that have gotten us to the point where we can do these heavy renovations in three and a half days and keep this process churning. We even have it to where in each floor plan we have instructions on when those materials are delivered, where to stack the boxes of flooring so that way we don’t have to move them twice, right? So we know which direction we’re gonna lay this flooring. So don’t put the flooring right where you’re gonna start because you’re gonna have to pick up 40 boxes of flooring again. And so those minor efficiencies multiplied over hundreds of examples is where you just get better and better and better over the years.

Charles:
No, that’s that’s a fantastic example. It’s just I mean it’s, it’s, it just goes to show you guys how much you’ve like really dialed in your construction, your property management, I mean, to a t and it’s just you just don’t normally see that. You’ll see it where if I’m looking at someone’s underwriting and it says like, they’re gonna keep vacancies over 90% during it, I’ll be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know what I mean? Because that’s normally how it is. You know what I mean? Like, this should be like in the high eighties, right? Because of the lag that usually happens between different companies and different people, right? You have a project manager that’s not on site, then you have this over here with a different contractor than another contractor and it becomes a huge mess. So being able to keep that all in house it really provides you guys a lot of control over the whole process, which allows you to really, you know, pad that by that bottom line as you keep these these units rented.

Jered:
I think I think a distinction there, if you have like for we are owner operators of multifamily asset that happen to use syndication to further that co core competency where there is, this isn’t a matter of right or wrong, but there’s like just differences, right? You have someone whose core competency might be raising capital, they just happen to choose multifamily as the thing to further that core competency. But yes, like, you know, who we are at their core is like we’re, we’re property managers in construction a construction company that happens to syndicate to further that. So but to your point, when we’re underwriting and presenting to investors, we cannot, we cannot put in what our actuals or trailing actuals are for vacancy because no one, no one will buy into a 98% occupancy rate rate. We have to, we have to write in at, at best case scenario, 94% occupancy. And then what we end up doing is beating our projections almost every single time. But it will get scrutinized to death if you put, if you put 98% occupancy during a, a stabilization, it’s just not many people can do it. And so we just have to under promise and overperform.

Charles:
Yeah, that’s, that’s a, that’s a great problem to have though. But so after nearly two decades in the real estate industry, I mean, what are some common mistakes you see real estate investors make? I mean, maybe ones you made yourself, maybe ones you see other people make continually,

Jered:
Yeah, I would say I’m guilty of it. And I think everybody, everybody in the industry is guilty of it at some point, as we, we read books, we listen to podcasts and we invest in real estate ultimately for the financial returns and the financial benefits that it can afford us, right? But what a, what a lot of people forget is it’s clear as day whether you’re in multifamily, industrial, really, even if you’re outside of real estate, financial returns are supported by onsite operations. And then I think what gets missed even further is onsite operations are supported by the people who work there. And so we have tons of efficiency in our business, but one area that we are, would be labeled as inefficient is we pay very well. Like our payroll is always high, and it’s always about that my belief is it’s an investment in the people which then support the onsite operations, which then support the financial returns, right?

Jered:
There’s a lag in it, but in my opinion, it’s a very wise investment over time because you’re talking about, you know, a swing in a couple hundred thousand dollars in payroll can have multiple million dollars of effects in valuation depending on how you’re operating these assets. And so to condense what I just said there, I think people miss the fact that the financial returns are supported by onsite operations and they’re supported by the people who work there. And we, we lose sight of that too often. And in the catering to our employees and the investment in them from payroll or education or whatever that might be, to then produce those financial returns that we’re

Charles:
Seeing. Yeah, I think it’s also one thing is you’re looking at properties and you’re looking at performance and you’re saying that your expenses are gonna go down, you know, property management expenses. And when I have to let people know is that, you know, you have these, no matter how big they are, multimillion dollar assets, and it’s, I mean, really the person that’s really talking to your client is, I mean, they’re not looked upon as the higher person in the, in the ladder, right? And they’re like, this is a very important person. These people that are talking to your tenants every day when there’s an issue, they’re the ones that are showing up. You know what I mean? And then on the site team, it’s, it’s, I mean, property management is one of the most thinkless jobs ever. And I mean, I self-managed properties for six years when I started. And I mean, you’ll get some people because they’ll know that you’re the owner, it’s a little different. You’re showing up or whatever it is. But I mean, it is really, you show up. I mean, it’s really, you kinda like it. It’s, it’s something that’s overseen, I think, and it’s not it’s, it’s not how it should be because they’re very, very important. And property management is the most important part, I think of a whole real estate investment process. ’cause Without that, nothing else works. You know what I mean?

Jered:
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. You can take an amazing asset, put the wrong property management firm, or even the wrong one person at the onsite level, and that really great asset can get run straight into the ground.

Charles:
Yeah. And I think with your business, you guys have different arms of it. So with regular sign indicator, they’re really looking at deals, they’re looking at cash, right? And they’re trying to put those two together. You guys have additional ones where, you know, you’re always looking for investors, you’re looking for deals. Now for with your construction and with property management, it’s really different. You’re, you don’t really have to look for deals. You don’t have to look for any of that stuff. You’re, you’re really just looking for people, right? And the way of paying them more, I think is a great way of good, good people that are gonna stay there with you for the long haul, which is an, an awesome way of doing it.

Jered:
Yeah, I mean, I guess we still need those deals, right? So that’s always a bottleneck in our, in our, we’re focused in one geographic market, so there’s just less inventory to pick from as a, as compared to I was buying across the whole Midwest or the whole us. But those good investment opportunities that have that upside potential have to exist. So then the people who work there can go after the goal of capturing that upside. So yeah,

Charles:
No, I’m just saying for your property management and construction thing, just keeping people, ’cause it’s very difficult to hire for those. So that part of your business is really just really focused on retaining these great employees that you have while your syndication side has got a different kind of goal of what they’re, they’re really focused on. So a lot of moving parts. But over the years, what have you found as some of the main factors that have contributed to your success?

Jered:
Not staying in my lane and not overextending myself. So like, I’m pretty good at focusing on what I can control and not getting sh shiny object syndrome. So when I tell you my story and it goes back 17 years, like really our business plan hasn’t changed at all. It’s grown in size. But what we do is we buy distressed assets, we force appreciation again through property management or construction. Then we strip the equity and we continue to operate it for long-term consistent, predictable cash flow. That was true 17 years ago, and that’s true today. I don’t do anything but that, and I don’t do it anywhere other than Cincinnati. And I have that focus has allowed me to make some wise decisions in hindsight. Like I’ve done all long-term fixed rate debt. I’ve focused heavily on operations. And so as we head into what I believe is a recessionary environment, like nothing will fare better than the combination of long-term fixed rate and rock solid operations. And so, like I, I feel what contributes to my success is just continuing to chip away at this same one craft that I started with.

Charles:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. You know, not getting the shiny object syndrome, which is a a huge issue for most entrepreneurs. So how would listeners learn more about you and your company?

Jered:
Our website is snscapitalgroup.com. And so there’s a contact us tab on there that those outreaches will make it to me. I’d be happy to talk to anyone there and they can learn more about our company.

Charles:
So. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and looking forward to connect with you here in the near future.

Jered:
Yeah, no, thank you. I appreciate the platform to share a little bit more about me and my story and our company.

Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

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About Jered Sturm

Jered Sturm is the Founder and CEO of SNS Capital Group, a leading multifamily investment firm based in Cincinnati, Ohio. With a career spanning over 17 years in the industry, Jered has transitioned from his early days as an apartment maintenance technician to become a prominent multifamily owner/operator and syndicator specializing in the vibrant Cincinnati market.

Utilizing his construction and property management background, Jered has strategically built SNS Capital Group into a vertically integrated investment firm, boasting over $150 million in assets under management. Renowned for their expertise in adding value and operating efficiently for long-term cash flow, Jered and his team offer a focused alternative for passive investors in the multifamily space.

Jered’s hands-on approach and commitment to excellence have earned him recognition as a sought-after expert in the industry. He frequently shares his insights as a keynote speaker at conferences and educational platforms, including multiple appearances on the acclaimed real estate podcast BiggerPockets.

Despite his remarkable success, Jered remains grounded in his humble beginnings, offering a relatable narrative that resonates with aspiring investors. Together with his wife and two young children, Jered calls Cincinnati home, embodying his belief in family, community, and the pursuit of financial success.

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