Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host, Charles Carillo. Today, we have Harley Green. He spent over 20 years as a software architect and computer engineer, and in 2013, he and his wife Adrienne started investing in real estate. They ran renovations, built investor networks, and eventually lent their own capital before ever taking outside capital.
Today he runs InvestAway, a direct private lending company that helps everyday investors put their capital, including self-directed IRA funds, to work in short-term, real estate-secured loans averaging 15% annually. He operates the business entirely remotely while traveling the world full-time with his wife and their three kids. Harley, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Harley:
My pleasure, Charles. Happy to be here.
Charles:
Tell us a little bit about yourself, both personally and professionally, prior to getting involved in investing in real estate 2013.
Harley:
Yeah, so I’ve had a passion for computers and technology since a very young age. I went to school and studied computer engineering, worked in the defense industry as a computer engineer for nearly 20 years. I thought I would never leave that job. I really loved it. And we just kind of fell into doing real estate investing on the side to just help diversify our investments. And it grew and grew and became a passion of our families in many ways, as you described in the intro. And it kind of took over. So in 2022, we were blessed with our real estate investing that I was able to step away from my computer engineering and focus full time on real estate investing and start getting into private lending.
Charles:
Okay. What was the reason you said just to kind expand your investment reach. But were there any other reason why you chose real estate as your investment fuel call?
Harley:
Initially, it was truly diversification. The business that I was working for as a computer engineer had a very generous retirement program, but it was limited to stocks, what most typical 401ks were. And so we were looking to diversify our portfolio. And then we realized there were so many other benefits that we weren’t even aware of at the time when we got started. And so it became a passion of ours from tax benefits to just personal benefits. We got into doing short-term rentals because we bought a beach house down in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, that we would personally enjoy a few weeks a year with our family. And it grew from there.
Charles:
Awesome. That’s fantastic. Out of the different investments that you had, tell us a little bit about afterwards transitioning from investor to lender and really utilizing that self-directed IRA.
Harley:
Yeah. So it was kind of funny how it got started. My wife had a real estate team at the time in Chattanooga Tennessee where we were living And we saw many times that she would make referrals to private lenders or hard money lenders for her buyers that were looking to buy properties And they would drop the ball whether it’s poor communication, just not responding at all, or they would change terms on the borrowers at the last minute that would make the deal not pencil anymore and spike these otherwise good deals that us as active investors knew were good deals. We’re like, hey, we can jump in and help these people save the deal for them and lend our own capital. Since I had just stepped away from my career as a computer engineer, I was able to roll that 401k into a self-directed IRA and lend from there.
Charles:
Interesting. So tell us a little bit about what you have going on now and give us an overview of what InvestAway is and what it does for your both sides of the pie, your investors, and then also for the borrowers.
Harley:
Absolutely. So we started doing that private lending back in 2022. And we made some mistakes along the way. We kind of chased some deals that now I know we should not have, such as like lending in second position or having loans that were over leveraged and put us at undue risk. So in 2025, we were kind of analyzing our portfolio and what was working well and what was not working well, and all the lessons we had learned doing private lending and formalized it into the InvestAway brand. And because our borrowers were really appreciating the loans and products that we were offering them that were designed specifically for active real estate investors, basically the lender and product that we wish we had when we were doing that, they were growing. They were wanting to scale up. They were referring their friends to us and I was out of money in my retirement account. And so to solve that problem, we started everything in InvestAway and we created a system that benefits the borrower and benefits the investor by allowing other people to invest and co-lend with us. So it’s kind of a unique model, I’d be happy to dig into that too.
Charles:
Yeah, that’d be great to go into exactly what your model is. And then I want to get a little bit more into the weeds on how the back-end process works for people utilizing the service.
Harley:
Absolutely. So many real estate investors are probably familiar with being the borrower with loans going through the application process. We’ve really simplified it in leverage technology so that we only ask for the absolute minimum required things. We don’t actually pull credit checks, for example. We really underwrite based on the asset, the house, as long as that deal makes sense, and we have enough margin, we’re able to lend. And so for borrowers, we offer great features that are still safe loans for us that make it so they can scale such as having the closing costs rolled into the loan or having their payments for the interest instead of having to come out of their bank account just get added to the loan balance so they don have any additional cash out of pocket so they can keep their cash liquid for doing multiple deals paying their contractors and then getting reimbursed. So that’s something that we really pride ourselves on enabling our borrowers to scale and net more money. On the investor side, rather than doing a fund model, which many people may be familiar with or where you have to be an accredited investor and you have a long lockup period and you have maybe low returns like eight to 10%, We decided to make sure everyone’s interests are fully aligned. We do direct co-lending. So we underwrite every loan as if we’re going to hold it ourselves. We fund it, originate it, and get into servicing with our own personal capital. Once it’s active and servicing, then we go ahead and put it up in our investor portal and make it available to investors who want to participate and they can do it on a fractional basis. So this makes it great for investors. They don’t have a stressful timeline of having to do underwriting, having to like see when it’s closing and have delays and worry about wiring money at a specific time. They can come in when it’s convenient for them, choose the loan that they want to participate in, and then wire us the money and become a co-lender on it, getting a much higher rate of return. And as you mentioned in the intro, over the last year, our investors who have co-lended with us have averaged 15% annualized from a function of the interest rates that we charge plus extension fees.
Charles:
Interesting. Okay.
Speaker 3:
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Charles:
So that’s great. When a borrower comes into your, you know, tell us a little bit about the loan process from the borrower reaching out to you to all the way through to an investor return
Harley:
Yeah so from the borrower side we really want to help active flippers or people building their portfolio using things like the BRRRR strategy And so we have a really simple online application Just ask the basics about the entity that they using like their LLC they’re using the flip in, basics about the property, what their plan is to renovate it. And then they submit that online. They submit photos of current condition. They are able to provide like their entity documents, bank statement just showing they’ve got enough for that down payment and initial couple of weeks of rehab. And that’s pretty much it. We do all the underwriting on the backside. We’re able to process a loan and get it funded within about three business days, assuming title has clean paperwork, because we have such an automated process. And if for loans under 400K, we do an automated desktop appraisal. So we’re able to get a valuation instantly and be able to lend up to 75% of that final after repair value. So it gives our borrowers really high leverage and a really streamlined process. And one of the things I think sets us apart and makes us really unique in the lending industry is that we stick to our lending, our loan commitments. So when that borrower submits the application within like a day, we would give them a loan commitment letter that has all the terms that we are going to offer. And once they sign that we move forward, we have a hundred percent success rate of keeping those terms and funding on time. And that’s really different than a lot of lenders who maybe you’ve got someone local, but it’s a salesperson who promises one thing, but the decisions are made out of state. They don’t know the local market. And so they’ll change terms later on, or like at the last minute, say no, or you’re going to have to bring 20 more K to the table. That kills deals. We’ve never done that. We always, when our yes, we say, we say yes, we mean yes. And we fund it.
Charles:
That’s, that’s, that’s amazing. So tell us a little bit about, since you’re not checking credit on your borrowers, your, it’s pretty much looks like it’s mostly like an asset-based lending program that you have. What other ways do you vet your borrowers?
Harley:
Yeah. So if it’s a new borrower, we have a phone conversation with them. We want to understand what’s their experience, making sure they’ve got clear exit plans. And so one of the things that we can also do because we are experienced investors ourselves is we can help coach them on that. So they might come to us with a deal and say, hey, my plan is to refinance this, hold it as a rental. And we want to talk to them and say, hey, what if you’re not able to get a tenant or what if you’re not able to qualify for the refinance loan? Let’s make sure you’ve got a solid exit strategy by making sure that the market price for the project is going to be enough to cover all the loan costs and your holding costs and still leave you with some margin to make sure it’s a successful and profitable deal. Our goal is to make sure all of our borrowers are wildly profitable on their deals because when they make a lot of money, they’re going to make a lot of money. going to keep wanting to do it again and coming back to us more and more and more.
Charles:
One thing I saw when I was on your website was that you had a kind of an area for grading different markets on how you lend there, what you like lending there. Can you kind of break that down? Because this might be something for people that are new to interest in short-term lending as a borrower. Kind of like break that down, how you guys came to that and what’s the reasoning?
Harley:
Yeah. So our primary markets are ones where we’ve analyzed the local market statistics and it’s areas where we’re very confident that there’s good fundamentals for people being active real estate investors. It’s a growing market. It’s an appreciating market. There’s low days on market, and it’s a high sales to list ratio, meaning the sales price is very close to the list price. And so for us, that gives us safety as a lender. And for our investors, it gives them safety and high profit margins. Then there’s the next tier of states. So these are states where we’re able to lend. These are more kind of regulatory issues at this point. So we really focus on business purpose lending. So we only lend to investors who are doing business purpose loans. We’re not going to lend if it’s your primary residence or you live in it. That’s a totally different set of lending requirements. And so for us to keep our process streamlined and fast, we only are lending in states where there’s very minimal regulations around business purpose loans. So one business working with another, and that’s where those tiers come in. And then the third tier are ones where we can do it based on regulations. However, those states are judicial foreclosure, which just means like if there was something to go wrong, it would take us a lot longer to recover our capital. So for those states, we can still say yes. It’s going to be a yes. And it may not be as high of leverage and all the different features we offer, such as like experienced borrowers getting 0% down. We might require the borrower to bring a little bit more cash to the table to protect our position in those states. And then the last set are ones where they just have so many regulations that make it impossible for us to lend there.
Charles:
No, that makes perfect sense. I didn’t know if it was the ease of like foreclosure or how that was going to work, which would kind of increases your risk as that becomes more difficult. So one of these big things is that you’ve invested through your self-directed IRA and we touched on it a little bit. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of in order to kind of how you utilize that? So what type of investments Obviously lending is a perfect one because it might not be as tax efficient as actually being a investor only equity But tell us a little bit about how you utilize them private loans and kind of what the process is for doing so
Harley:
Absolutely So there different classes of self-directed IRAs. There’s custodial accounts, and then there’s checkbook control accounts. And we started out with the custodial accounts. And one of the challenges there when you’re a direct private lender, where you’re the one who’s originating the loan, is the timeliness of it. You’re having to provide all the paperwork to your custodian. They’ve got to review it, approve it. And then they have to send the funds and that can take some time and there can be delays. And we ran into issues. Thankfully it never like killed a deal, but there, it was definitely down to the wire of like having to call them and be like, I need this wire sent absolutely right now. And it got really stressful. So we’ve actually migrated to what’s called checkbook control and there’s different ways of doing it through, they create like an LLC or they can do it through a trust. We’re really happy using RocketDollar right now. They’ve just created a trust. And then we have basically a separate bank account that our SDIRA is able to use to wire of funds. So then we can use that to wire directly to the title company when it’s time to close. People doing it themselves, it’s quite a bit of work. You got to be careful that you’re underwriting properly. There’s a whole set of potential mistakes that people can run into. And we do have a free guide. People can get on our website at investaway.co slash pml7mistakes. If people want to take a look at that, things that we’ve learned ourselves the hard way over the years. So sharing that with everyone else. But it’s great. Like you mentioned, the tax advantage account of a self-directed IRA is perfect for private lending versus like direct real estate ownership. You’ve got all kinds of tax benefits that when you own it in an SDIRA, you’re not able to realize those fully versus owning like outside of an SDIRA. And I get it. Some people, they may not have the capital outside of their retirement accounts to buy real estate. It’s great to get involved that way. But if you can, lending is the way to go because it’s just earning interest and there’s not any tax benefits to it. And so having that help grow your retirement account is an absolutely perfect combination of investment product with an investment vehicle.
Charles:
Interesting. Okay. So one of the things that we talked about when we started recording was about your traveling. And one thing I put in the intro, and you were kind of telling me a little bit about where you’ve been over the last couple months. And this is one thing that really interests me, because obviously, when you’re traveling, you’re in different time zones sometimes from where you’re usually based. And tell me a little bit about how you structure your day while traveling in different time zones, but also working with Americans primarily?
Harley:
Absolutely. It is a challenge. I will say that is one of the biggest challenges that we face is just the logistics of travel and calendar management and time zones And so what we generally try to do when we traveling is spend a month or two in each location so that we were able to kind of get established update all of our calendars and have some overlap with the American time zones. And so when we’re in like Southeast Asia, that’s the most difficult. There’s times where we’re having to be up until one or two in the morning to be able to have calls with people that are in Pacific time in the US. So we try to limit our time there. When we’re in the Americas, it’s great. I mean, most of the time zones overlap so that’s not really an issue. And as far as just kind of managing the day, we’re just really big on schedule management. We spend a lot of time and have our assistants managing our calendars to make sure there’s no conflicts. And even then, sometimes they do show up and we just have to be gracious and accommodating with our schedules and then the people that we work with.
Charles:
Yes, that makes sense. So when you’re setting up, you’re opening up times on your calendar for the book, obviously that changes for where you’re going and it makes it easier to be there for a longer period of time, but then you have some overlap with your team. Where’s your team? It’s mainly in the Philippines. Did I read that? Is that correct?
Harley:
That’s correct. So we also have a virtual staffing agency called Workergenics. So we help people get executive assistance from the Philippines and we leverage them a lot in the lending business as well. So the nice thing about them is while they’re in the Philippines, they maintain a consistent schedule. So they’re always working like US central time hours. So they got plenty of overlap with East Coast, Mountain and Pacific time.
Charles:
Okay. That’s awesome. That was great. So during your traveling, obviously you can’t bring everything, all the home comforts of your office. What would you say are some of the most essential items that you travel with? And that could be for work or for personal.
Harley:
Yeah. So our family of five travels with three large size suitcases and then two carry-ons plus our backpacks. And so we’ve been really, you know, it’s taken a process, but it’s really freeing actually mentally to just like not have a lot of stuff. We have some things left in a storage locker back in Tennessee where we were living before we started traveling full time. And it’s been over two years. And there’s very few times where we feel like we miss our stuff. It’s actually kind of freeing to not have a lot of stuff that you have to maintain. I would say as far as like essential things go, it’s our laptop, second monitor and a microphone for like doing business and then for fun. And it’s really like the types of clothing and that’s something and shoes. That’s something we’ve kind of struggled with is like our family likes going outdoors and doing hiking but hiking boots are very heavy and they take up a lot of space and so we’ve had to coordinate sometimes we’ll like mail our boots back to the U.S. if we’re going to be going somewhere where there’s not a lot of hiking it just like not really a thing they kind of like we were in Vietnam for four months this year there not really hiking there so we didn need the boots Then we came back and being in Guatemala we want our hiking boots And here in Sedona we want our hiking boots So we like coordinate getting those shipped back to us. So it’s a challenge, but I think it’s worth it. Just being able to experience the world. And especially for our kids, they’ve been in over 20 different countries. They’ve been in six continents just in the last two years. That life experience that they’re having is just unbeatable.
Charles:
Yeah. So pretty much for your business front, it’s really kind of works around laptop, second monitor, microphone, and pretty much you’ve got HQ set up wherever you might be. That’s right. That’s awesome. That’s really cool. What did you say were some of the major changes you made in your business that helped you make remote work easier and more streamlined? Obviously, having the VAs would be a huge one. And you can kind of go into that in more detail. Or if there’s something else maybe that you wouldn’t think of first.
Harley:
Well, I think a lot of it is designing the business to support your lifestyle. And so for us, lending is a perfect fit. I don’t have to go oversee contractors. I don’t like what we had to do when we were doing active flipping. I don’t have to do in-person events. And so the beauty of the private lending is I can review and underwrite a file at any time zone anywhere in the world. I can initiate a wire to fund it at any time zone anywhere in the world. So that’s a huge benefit of that business model. The other thing is, yes, leveraging the virtual assistants has been absolutely a game changer. I don’t have to do all the detailed underwriting. I just get to see the final results and make the executive decisions of, yes, this file looks good, fund it. Or no, these are some additional requirements we need to put. And then I can spend my time when I do work doing really high level things like meeting with our investors, talking to people like you and sharing the story and doing high level things like setting up new automations with AI, making sure we’ve got the best technology systems to support our borrowers and our investors.
Charles:
Interesting. So one of the things you’re saying is that I guess when a new investor comes in or when an already investor comes back for a second loan, you are going to be speaking to them. And then a lot of the back end work, back office work can be done by VAs. And then you’re the one at the end signing off. Is that correct? How it works?
Harley:
That’s right. So I’ll do the initial consult, answer any questions they have about our process, are underwriting, you know, the what if situations. And then once they’re like, yep, this sounds good. How do I get started? Everything gets handed off to a VA. They take care of all the onboarding, the document requests, making sure everything gets e-signed properly and filed, helping them with the wire instructions. And then when it comes It’s time to send out distributions or fund the loans. Our VAs have access to our bank account to set up the wires and the ACH, and then I just have to log in once a day, review them, and hit approve.
Charles:
Interesting. Okay. Um, one of the things you find with a lot of these fix-and-flip loans, and I imagine this is pretty normal with yours, is there’s a construction draw, and these different draws happen at different parts. This can be a little bit more difficult, um, if you’re not there presently, um, where these properties… And since you’re in so many different states as well, like we talked about earlier with the markets you’re in, how do you do that? I mean, how do you check, just know that, um, work is being done to the level that you want? How do you verify that? What do you request to verify that?
Harley:
Right. So we do our draws based on a reimbursement of actual costs and completed work on the house. So some places, they might just say, “Hey, we’re doing phases. After one month, you get 10 grand. After two months, you get 10 grand.” And, you know, it’s on the investor to make sure it’s used properly. That’s not our model. Our model is if you wanna get reimbursed, you have to have paid for it and completed the work and be able to demonstrate that. So w- we have a great technology portal where they’re able to submit their draw requests. They put in a clear description of what the work was completed, and they have a budget that they submitted during the application that they match those requests to on the different line items, and then they attach photo evidence. So this has to show evidence that the work is actually completed on the house. They can’t just go and say, “Hey, I bought, you know, five grand worth of drywall.” We need to see that drywall on the house because, again, our capital is protected by the asset, not the borrower. And so it’s anytime we are putting more money on a loan, it’s gotta be correspondent value added to the property. And so we require detailed photos and re- detailed, like, invoices showing that they’re paid, and also payment evidence. For first-time borrowers working with us, sometimes they feel it’s a little bit onerous, especially ones that haven’t– maybe they’ve been paying cash for all their deals before this. They don’t have to go through the rigorous process of, like, keeping records. They kinda push back a little bit, but we stand firm and say, “Look, we need to be able to protect ourselves and verify everything.” And what ends up happening is after their first or second loan with us, they actually come back and say, you know, “Thank you, Harley. This process, it actually forced me to put processes in place that keep me more organized, keep me tracking my numbers better,” and it ultimately allows them to scale.
Charles:
Interesting. Yeah, no, that’s, that’s great. Um, what would you say when… I mean, how are you– I always find it interesting when, um, I speak to business owners about how they’re utilizing AI, um, in their businesses, and it’s always makes me think ’cause it’s something there’s a lot of overlapping between different real estate businesses. How are you utilizing AI in your process? I imagine it’s big with, um, obviously with underwriting. I imagine it’s also big with you managing your con- your contractor contacts in your calendar. So tell us a little bit about that.
Harley:
It is an ongoing and evolving process, and I would say right now the, the biggest areas that we’re using it is, like you said, in the underwriting and valuation. That’s one of the most important parts of our job, is making sure we get that value right so that we’re lending an amount that is safe and protecting both us and the investor that they don’t get over-leveraged and get underwater. And so we use some third-party tools– Excuse me. We use some third-party tools that help us automate getting those initial valuation reports, and then we also use our own internal tools. So we are really heavily using Claude right now, and we will put those reports into Claude and do, like, a second round of analysis on it because sometimes those third parties don’t get it quite right. And so we’ll use our own analysis. We’ll look at the entire comp set, and we might revise that comps to be more accurate using AI. We also use it when underwriting decisions for loan modification requests. So we just had a borrower today, they’re almost out of money on their renovation budget. They decided they wanted to add an extra bathroom that they consulted with their realtor. It was gonna, like, massively increase the value of their property for that specific market. And so they came to us and said, “Hey, you know, we need another couple of months and another, like, 20 grand.” And so rather than just saying yes, we have to do another kind of mini underwriting. So we leverage AI to analyze that CMA report that their realtor gave versus, like, the original one that we developed, see if the anything has changed or needs to be flagged, what value we’re comfortable with on the loan, whether we’re okay using maybe the updated value or we need to stick with our original one, and then also analyzing the co- the state of the construction. So as part of that request, they have to submit full, uh, photo evidence of the current state of the house over everything. So that’s a lot of photos. It would take someone a long time to analyze a- all those and really understand what’s going on, versus with AI, I can just say, “Hey, here’s the folder in Google Drive. It’s got all the photos of the house. Tell me what percent it is complete based on the original scope of work. Compare that to their proposed updated scope of work and budget and timeline, and what you think is reasonable.” And it’s been huge and very accurate in helping us determine whether their plan makes sense or what feedback we should give them. Sometimes there’s cases where we’re like, “Hey, you asked for two months. I really think you need three months because, yes, it’s gonna take you two months to get it done, but then you need another month to either sell it or get it refinanced.”
Charles:
That makes perfect sense. Um, what would you say, uh, are some of the biggest common mistakes you see private lenders make?
Harley:
The biggest one is chasing high returns in second position. I cannot tell you the amount of investors who invest money with us who came to us after being burned being a private lender in second position. And what that means for people who aren’t familiar with lending is, like, when you go and get a loan to, like, buy your house or buy your investment property, the bank is getting in first position. It’s the, uh, like, original debt on that property with the highest priority. So, like, if anything happens, um, they have to get paid, and that debt has to be cleared for the title to transfer. Second position means that you’re behind the primary debt, so that primary debt’s gotta get satisfied before you get a penny. And here’s the challenge. Even though they might come to you and say, “Look at my first position loan is 100K. The property is worth 200K. There’s 100K of margin there. Can you give me 50K to, like, help me do this renovation?” Or whatever it is. If they, for whatever reason, default on that first position debt, like they don’t– they miss some payments, or there’s a lot of loans where they have clauses, and we put this in ours, you cannot take on any other debt. So if that bank checks and sees there’s other debt They can put that loan in default and foreclose on them even if they’re up to date on their payments. And additionally, those loans often have clauses that balloon the debt. They might automatically add 10, 20% to the amount owed to cover legal fees and re- and costs like that. So that margin that they said was like 100K could quickly get eaten up with those fees, additional default interest, and things like that. So those all have to get satisfied and paid before your loan does. And so second position has almost no security at all, and it, it’s a huge mistake that many people do when they are getting into private lending ’cause there’s often like high returns offered with it that they often don’t ever collect.
Charles:
I spoke to a lender before, and he was telling me that, um, if you do second positions, you have to have enough money to buy out the first position. So if there’s any type of uneasiness, you… So it’s makes perfect sense because that first lender is gonna be like, “You know, I’m, I’m done with this. They added on this different… You know, they’re, they’re not paying their bills, blah, blah, blah, so I’m gonna… It’s like you said, it’s gonna go up 10, 20%. Um, you buy me out, and then that’s it. Now you have the whole thing, this whole issue.” Which is not really a good loan that you’re getting involved with ’cause it’s not performing. So there doesn’t look like any kind of pros for doing second positions.
Harley:
No. Uh, no.
Charles:
Interesting. Well, Harley, as we’re wrapping up here, what do you think over your whole career, um, from what you were doing before to what you’re doing now, um, has compounded the most for you over that time?
Harley:
Yeah, that’s a really great question, and I think the thing that has helped me the most or has made the most impact has really been my wife. She has been a huge supporter of, you know, the, the changes in the career, getting into investing, getting into lending, and then also just being a sounding board of like, “Hey, you know, things aren’t going well in this direction,” or, “Hey, like, when we were doing second position loans, we probably need to analyze and stop ’cause, like, th- they are not working out. We need to really tighten up the systems.” And really pushing me to improve my systems and improve my professional management of people and business operations. So I, I would say my wife has been one of the biggest influences and helps in the success that I’ve had.
Charles:
Fantastic. So Harley, how can our listeners learn more about you and your business?
Harley:
Absolutely. So a great place to start is just going to our website, investaway.co. If you are interested in being a private lender, either doing it yourself or with us, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, we have a free guide covering the most common and costly mistakes that first-time private lenders make. You can get it at investaway.co/pml7mistakes.
Charles:
Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Uh, looking forward to connecting with you here in the near future.
Harley:
Awesome. Thank you, Charles. I appreciate you having me on the show.
